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Ake Vader's blog
se Ake Vader
Age :39
Group: Administrator
Location: Sweden
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se Ake Vader
Misc  /  19 May 2014, 17:31
Getting organised?
I've many times wondered if QuakeWorld would benefit from being a bit more organised than it is today. I think there could be both benefits and good experiences to be had if forming some kind of association around the game. Read on to have more of my thoughts.
The QuakeWorld community today consists of a great deal of volunteers who valiantly keeps servers alive, run tournaments, develops clients and mods, writes news on the websites etc. As you all know many of these efforts are run by individuals more or less on their own and sometimes great ideas and ongoing projects fade away or maybe they are run, but with some backing and sponsors they would be even better.

Looking at other communities, like Counter-Strike for example, i see websites organised as volunteer organisations under umbrella organisations such as Sverok which provides an official entity which can be used when trying to get sponsor deals or simply just for raising funds from the community (the association has its own bank account) for whatever the purpose might be. When raising funds it's no longer just John "Dodgy" Doe asking to get money transferred to his own private bank account, it would be "QuakeWorld Community Association" raising the funds (or whatever the name would be). It would also be the association itself owning any funds/assets.

For Swedish members one also gets a certain grant for each member if arranging activities on a yearly basis i think.

Activities that could benefit from such an association:
  • Raising prize pools for tournaments from the community
  • Negotiating sponsorships for tournaments
  • Using the association as a "think tank" and a roadmap for what's happening activity-wise in QuakeWorld
  • Using the association to revive the LAN tradition (hosting it on an internet cafe instead of bringing computers)
  • Distributing funds raised through grants/donations to pay for web-/gameserver hosting and perhaps even development (i realise this is a controversial topic though as to whom should get paid as there are already a lot of people doing or having done volunteer work, but i list it as a possibility anyway)
  • Etc...

The backside of it all is that there would be some administrative tasks and to start it all at least 3-4 (probably Swedish) persons are required for various roles (chairman, cashier etc). However i think running such a thing would be a good learning experience (that would not look too bad in a CV even) and all meetings etc can still be held online.

Does it sound like a good idea? Thoughts/comments? Are there any interested persons (Swedes probably required) out there? Did the ship already sail away?
31
Comments
2014-05-19, 17:48
#1
An example of an association under Sverok is BrutalCS (link) which is kind of the organisation I'm thinking about but for CS 1.6/CS:GO and more focused on the server part of things. However the required docs/meetings etc would be the same.

If you check their yearly meeting reports (listed on the right side when following the link above) you can see that they are totally transparent with what they have done, what they are planning and their economy.
2014-05-20, 09:49
#2
I would gladly help organize it.
The major problem is perhaps that the qw ship has sailed.
2014-05-20, 18:14
#3
It's because we let it adrift!
2014-05-21, 10:11
#4
Well, Im not sure we did really.
Trying to hold the qwscene at an acceptable level of players when new games with millions in marketing campaigns are released each year (this has also increased yearly since 1996) is just not doable.

There are also a lot of factors combining here like age of the original qwplayers, getting family and kids compared to school etc. Getting teenages interested in qw when perhaps they dont even play games on the PC anymore but instead use iPad, playstation and xbox.

Actually playing the game is what should make players keep playing and it is not like we havent played. Still we have lost great numbers of players for each year that has passed. Also, there has been developers, websites, tournaments etc from the get go. If we had done nothing of this over the years I would agree that we let it drift.
2014-05-21, 13:44
#5
Well the online infrastructure of QuakeWorld in terms of websites, be it tournament websites or QW.nu, is really lacking compared to what it could be. Nothing is integrated nor maintained anymore and there is either noone to do it, or it is not possible to do it for the people who want to (prime example being contributing to the qw wiki).

If we would organise ourselves better we could improve on things easier and also decide what is really important steps forward and focus on those in a structured way. The current state of the QW infrastructure is that it really has stagnated.

A game like Minecraft has sold 20 million copies and i bet the majority of those are for PC. I'm not saying QuakeWorld would get 20 million players, but with some efforts and focus in the right areas i am certain that we could get numbers to increase. QuakeWorld itself is a very developed game compared to many other similar shooters with awesome gameplay while still having OK (at least not hurting the eye) graphics.
2014-05-21, 14:04
#6
Dont get me wrong tho, Im all for organizing us better!
2014-05-21, 20:55
#7
I would gladly help as much as my time lets me with a serious run at organizing QW. I completely agree with what Ake Vader is saying and Iīm surprised it hasnīt been said sooner.

However, there needs to be somebody with alot of drive and trustworthyness at the center of the web. Itīs a major project weīre talking about after all. I guess finding out what resources there are and starting small is a good idea.
2014-05-22, 13:50
#8
"unify" is the word!

there's lot's of isolated efforts going on, and nobody is aware...

For example: here in Brazil, we are programming almost everyday, improving KTX/MVDSV server, and it is currently 48979472398473298 times better than any other server of the world!!!!!

and i'm not even gonna say that, ahhh, wait, i'm GONNA: There is a vulnerability in EVERY ktx server in all the galaxy: "FULL command-line access for anyone who compile ezQuake with a tiny modification!"
2014-05-22, 13:51
#9
(just an example, of how we need to integrate ourselves more!)
2014-05-22, 15:49
#10
I think establishing some kind of improvement process where we decide what we want to improve and then break it into as tiny, doable tasks as possible would be a good way to go. Can all be done online where we gather tasks in a project management system with the occasional follow-up meeting. This could start right away without any formal association started.

Organising bigger things (such as an event or developing something completely new) could be launched as a separate project once we're in the loop, and then the official association is more important I'd say.
2014-05-22, 16:22
#11
Babysteps is probably the way to go, just try to gather all the worker bees in one hive! I completely agree. Once thereīs a fundament more can be added later.
2014-05-22, 22:00
#12
wernerml - do you have a website where we can read about these updates you are doing to KTX and MVDSV? I noticed that your brazilian servers are actually all passworded and no one can even connect or spectate without registering... doesn't that deter people from playing rather than encourage it?
2014-05-23, 06:37
#13
If i remember correctly the Brazilians were really annoyed with fakenickers so perhaps that triggered something...

On topic i think concrete steps would be to start an IRC channel as a gathering place and a project website as the central hub. Perhaps we can use dotproject (http://www.dotproject.net) as the system unless someone has a better idea? I'd just want it to keep track of tasks and what's been done on them so other people can catch up in case people who previously worked on them cannot contribute for one reason or another.
2014-05-23, 13:36
#14
dirtbox, sorry, currently we are not sharing anything =(
i'm gonna arrange a upload to a github/bitbucket for everyone!

Ake Vader: yeah... that's why we created this login/password system,

1st: To exterminate unnameds
2nd: To simply make BAN-system works! (instead of the ridiculous IP hunting, we just ban, like for a month, the user/login!)
2014-05-23, 13:42
#15
dimman wrote:
Dimman, do you have the COMMIT of the vulnerability fix ?
(merged into your github code)
?
2014-05-23, 18:14
#16
Years ago I also thought it was a good idea to have something like a "high council" to discuss and make decisions. To some agree, that happened occassionally, for example when Smackdown ruleset was declared to allow qizmo only and ban fakeshaft - that set the standards for years to come and the majority of the scene back then accepted that (even though not everyone liked it). Similar things apply to the map pool.

Your suggestion goes into a slightly different direction; you aim for a council with competencies to make decisions but mainly to represent the scene and organize positive things for it. I respect what all the coders, website runners, league organisators, livegame commentators and organizers do for the scene - but how much of the scene remains and what is the return on investment? Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about money here. But I think it's very frustrating to put a lot of effort into certain tasks to generate a good result and it almost goes along unnoticed because the player base is so small.
2014-05-23, 19:37
#17
here is the fix for the vulnerability: https://github.com/SeriTools/ktx/pull/1
2014-05-25, 21:51
#18
wernerml wrote:
Dimman, do you have the COMMIT of the vulnerability fix ?
(merged into your github code)
?

I just did. Just remember that my repository on github is not the official repository, it's just a mirror plus some of my patches (and now this).

I do recommend all server admins running KTX to update ASAP.
2014-05-29, 18:31
#19
suddenly i felt like starting to play again.
2014-05-30, 15:23
#20
I think this is exactly what QW needs. More organisation and a clear roadmap of where we are and where we want to go.

I could probably help out as a board member. I've been a board member in other organisations.
2014-05-30, 16:57
#21
Sounds awesome Emp. How about those interested (me, Hora?, Cara?, Emp) gather in #qw.association on IRC to discuss things further as a start.

@phrenic, there's an excellent opportunity to start playing on Sunday in the Refragged cup!
2014-05-30, 20:46
#22
We moved to #qwassoc and bought a domain (qwassoc.org). This is happening.
2014-05-31, 20:34
#23
wernerml wrote:
dirtbox, sorry, currently we are not sharing anything =(
Don't forget that you are dealing with GPL licensed open source code, and since you run the software on servers you are obliged to hand out the source.
2014-06-02, 16:19
#24
I will always contribute in any way I can
2014-06-03, 09:29
#25
dimman, are you sure about that? I always thought that GPL covers the distribution of software. Meaning that as soon as you distribute the binary you also have to deliver the source. As long as you use it for 'internal' purposes and don't give out the software to anyone you can just to whatever you like with it? I'm not sure at all about this though..
2014-06-18, 18:03
#26
Isn't providing a server kind of like distributing the binary? In a way...
2014-08-18, 13:49
#27
Tuna, IANAL, but it would surprise me if running a public server with GPL'ed OSS, in the meaning of providing a public service, wouldn't be covered by the source release clause.

EDIT: Actually as long as it's run on his own server(s) without distributing the binary, it doesn't look like it's covered under regular GPL3.0 atleast, but Affero GPL license, covers just this case.
2015-07-01, 00:19
#28
Ake_vader, cara, empezar, Hooraytio: one year has passed. Did you change your minds? We have an year to organize ourselves and do something big for the 20th aniversary of quake, possibly sponsored/supported by John Carmack and ID Software. I got a cousin that was beta tester of the Oculus (Carmack's main project nowadays), and we can arrange a meeting with him. Maybe we could capitalize on this event and try to bring quake back to the game scene, get some media coverage, etc.

Lets say this idea never comes to reality... Cant we get organized and give our game a longer life? 10 out 10 qw players or ex qw players i talked to say they are feeling like stop or stopped playing because of lack of activity. I dont want to stop, neither they. And i do not agree with the idea of "qw scene come and goes by itself". It will die soon if we dont do anything.
2015-07-03, 05:37
#29
2015-08-10, 08:55
#30
Let me know if you need a retired veteran for support. The very OLD-timers know who I am :-)
I am very AMAZED this game is still alive...

/Sniket
2015-08-10, 10:46
#31
It's probably my fault things didn't take off as i wasn't persistent enough and thought my time was better used actually doing something concrete that i could affect (Refragged cups) rather than chasing other people to do things (that they will possibly not even want to do). Also the cups ended up not being worth the time invested either as less people signed up, so then i used the time on actually playing the game and streaming instead.

I still think getting a group together to help out with things is a very good idea, however start with the small things and keep it simple.
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