Because that's where your mouse (crosshair) is. The client knows this so it can simulate the shaft moving there. Hence, smoothing the curve. It's not the future, it's the present - only more updated than the real shaft. The payoff is that it ignores latency completely.


Partly agree, but it would require you to "move" shaft around real fast due to how quickly it updates (several degrees per ms), and it has nothing to do with whether you move it back and forth or just in one direction. Only with how fast you move it. Although I dragged time down in this instance to point out what I meant, lets not forget that the delay between every update on the shaft goes by rather quickly, so the 'fakeshaft' doesn't have much 'fake information' to tell before the actual information "becomes" the fake information. The point being that even though the fakeshaft tells you a lie, it's so small a lie that it gets past unnoticed (assuming your ping is low enough). Even if you aim slightly wrong because of it, you will still hit your target, because the fakeshaft doesn't lie enough for you to miss (very often).

Of course, the effect tapers off the higher your ping becomes. I can't claim that a 26 pinger gets nearly the same benefit from 0.8 fakeshaft as a 13 pinger does. The 26 pinger has more delay on his shaft to deal with, so he'd have to lower his fakeshaft to maybe 0.4 or 0.5 - maybe even lower, I haven't played around with this ping a whole lot - decreasing the effect from the fakeshaft and increasing the "jaggedness". Once you get upwards 40+, I doubt fakeshaft would help you at all. The lie told to smooth your shaft would simply be too big to be of any help at all.

So in the end, it helps those who already have the potential to shaft the best (13 pingers) to shaft better. Is that really something we want?

edit: I split up the quote to make more sense.

ban it!!!!!

Just have to throw in that I haven't thought much about fakeshaft, but most good LGers tell me that it should be 0 if I want the best aim. If that's the case, I can't really see why it should be banned since the elites won't be using it.

The point is, players with crosshair 0 benefit from making crosshair 1.

Suppose that crosshair got centered every 100 ms (like shaft does), (and less if you use values between 0..1) This still doesnt change the fact that your current crosshair position (when set to 1) does Not tell you where your last shot was hit. You can only learn that from blood trails.

Now the crosshair concept is the same as the fakeshaft.

Now do you see how ludicrous it is to say fakeshaft helps more than crosshair? Yes there is help from fakeshaft, But It Is The Same Help As Turning On Crosshair.

So lets drive this analogy home. Lets say that crosshair only updates it's position as often as shaft (with fakeshaft off) is updated. Furthermore, lets say that your RL shots will only be fired where crosshair is pointing. You can't honestly tell me that you wouldn't benefit from making the crosshair smoothly track behind as you turn - rather than choppily jumping from position to position - even if
that "fakecrosshair", if you will, would point slightly wrong most of the time, but not wrong enough that you would miss your RL's.

You would gain most of the "smooth" tracking that a regular crosshair (crosshair 1) gives you, while mainting the latency effect that we invented for our new crosshair so as not to "lie" to you and tell you that you're aiming somewhere you're not. Win/win.

edit: I can make another analogy if that helps. Imagine the game is actually limited to a meager 15 FPS. There is no more data than that coming from the server, so you can only tell where your enemy ACTUALLY is every ~6.67 ms. However, your client is able to predict where your enemy's movements will put him between those 6 ms, and smooths the game to 77 FPS for you. Now that would be a lie - but a "white lie" - just like the percentual fakeshaft. The possible movement change of your enemy within those ~6.67 ms "gaps" wouldn't be so great as to completely fool you - but the eye and the mind would be able to perceive your enemy's movements easier, helping you to hit him.

In closing, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am of the distinct opinion that a percentual fakeshaft is able to remove the jaggedness of the shaft graphic, thus helping the human eye and mind easier track the enemy, all the while maintaining enough of the latency from your ping that the "lie" told is not big enough to make you miss. While you may hold to your ideal that fakeshaft 1 = crosshair 1 (which I agree with, btw) and that all other forms are just lesser variables thereof (which I cannot agree with at all), you are entitled to that opinion, and I can't seem to express myself clearly enough to bring my point across.

Most really good LG'ers don't have much to gain from using fakeshaft, this is true. Mainly because they've trained themselves to ignore the jagged appearance of the shaft, and focus their attention on keeping their enemy bleeding. Fakeshaft mostly helps those who aren't as good at shafting, but have the ping to give them the potential to be great shafters.

I can't believeg this still is not clear


That is Exactly What I Have Been Telling You. The player benefits from crosshair 1. The player benefits from fakeshaft 1 In. A. Similar. Manner. There is no fundamental difference from fakeshaft and crosshair. Yes, both have a benefit, but the benefit is Fundamentally. The. Same.

Afterwards you even said "you may hold to your ideal that fakeshaft 1 = crosshair 1 (which I agree with, btw)". If you agree with that, then you agree that the benefit from them both is the same at the level of setting the variable fully to "1"

From there it is just a small step to understand that values of fakeshaft between 0 and 1 are just interpolations between 0 and 1 (the coders can back me up on this one), and that any perceived benefit from "fakeshaft 1" will actually be Less So If The Value Is Less Then One.

Maybe middle school algebra can help.

fakeshaft_benefit = value_of_fakeshaft.
value_of_fakeshaft_a = 1
fakeshaft_benefit_a = 1
value_of_fakeshaft_b = 0.5
fakeshaft_benefit_b = 0.5
fakeshaft_benefit_a > fakeshaft_benefit_b (there is no more benefit from percentual values of fakeshaft)

Ah, yes, I think I see where you're going wrong now. You are of the belief that we are simply adding something to nothing. That is to say, fakeshaft 0 = "0 + 0 = 0", and fakeshaft 1 = "0 + 1 = 1". This is not true in itself, and therefore, your resulting conclusion is erraneous. Rather, it's more like fakeshaft 0 = "1 + 0 = 1" and fakeshaft 1 = "0 + 1 = 1", and fakeshaft 0.5 = "0.5 + 0.5 = 1". I'll try to explain it further.

The problem with your way of thinking is that it completely ignores the data we have before we set a fakeshaft value. That data is then "meshed" with our fakeshaft value to create a new value. If we set fakeshaft 1 we completely ignore our original data, and loose all that information. However, when we set our fakeshaft to a percentual value, we keep some of that data and only strive to "perfect" it with the fakeshaft data.

We remove bits and pieces and add to the whole, rather than replacing the entire data. Look at it like a picture. With fakeshaft 0, we can only see about 70% of the picture. If we set fakeshaft 100% we get an entirely different picture - somewhat similar, but still completely erraneous. However, if we set fakeshaft to say, 0.5 - then we replace some of the original picture with our fakeshaft picture, but we also replace some of that 30% that was "blank" before with our fakeshaft picture. The result is more like a 85% complete picture that is only slightly erraneous.

I'm running out of analogies here. I think, like I said earlier, if this won't explain what I mean to you, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Regardless, this is my last post on the subject.

edit: Just thought I'd fix this part as well, forgot about it in the hustle and bustle of the prior matter.

And as usual you completely misunderstood the analogy. If you set crosshair 1 in that analogy, then the crosshair would be "fixed" to the middle of the screen. There would be no benefit from that, since you would have no indication of where you were actually aiming. Just like fakeshaft 1. However, the analogy strived to explain that if you set your crosshair to a percentual value, then it would still lag behind - like latency, sorta - but smoothly, instead of chopping along. Thus, you gained the best of two worlds (the smoothness of crosshair 1, and the accuracy of crosshair 0), and the only thing you give up is a small part of each (not *really* as smooth as crosshair 1, and not *really* as accurate as crosshair 0 - but rather, the better of the two halves put together).

That is simply wrong, because at any value of fakeshaft other than 0, there will be interpolation, and there is no way you can tell an interpolated frame from a direct hit. That is where youre confused.

edit: but no worries, I'm always glad to ++post_count with you (well, your post_count, not mine... )

Woo yeah! Let's have more discussions reduced to mathematical equations! Why not get in some semantic/predicate logic annotations too?

)))))))))))))))))))

wtf dudes? time out!

So, the lie happens often but it's omittable cause it's small (at low ping). Then I say the truth is also so small that it's omittable. More. At every ping value you can find fakeshaft value which will give you similiar statistical average truth/lie deviation value.
Anyway, it's all just very individual thing and this is the reason why some people are gaining when using fakeshaft and why some people are gaining by not using it. Everything depends on your playstyle, opponent, ping value, fakseshaft value, your overall lg perception, etc. Like phil said, fakeshaft is not giving you any new 100% real information, it's giving you new information which can be false or truth, you can't tell if it's telling you more truth than lie. This should be and is your choice if you gonna risk and use it or not. It can help you but it can harm you.


I was using fs 0.5 @ 50ms (league games) and fs 0 @ 26ms (everything else). I think it helped me a lot in league games. Then I started to use fs 0.5 also @ 25ms and I think it didn't help me much @ 25ms but it harmed my lg aim @ 50ms. I know many people (and I played with them) who claimed (after week-two of playing with fakeshaft) that it didn't help them at all or even made things worse so they stopped to use it. So I guess it's simply the matter of individual perception, like I said before. You can't arbitraly say it's gonna for sure help or for sure harm random people. It's just another individual setting.

Since day one of quake, crosshair 1 has been available and used. The update of the position of the crosshair is clientside, not server dependant. Now, we have clientside update of the shaft model. If it's available to everyone, like crosshair 1 is, why not allow it. Yes, it visually makes the shaft smoother, but the server still "sees" the latency so for a minimal amount of (ms) time your shaft isnt pointing exactly where the server sees your aim. I say the latent shaft was a bug in the original design and truelighting is the fix. You dont hear people in Quake3 forums bitching about the fakeshaft ??

Another thing that probably helps your LG % even more than fakeshaft is the "shaftlight" variable, where you can make your shaft darker and thus not be bothered by it that much. I don't think I've seen it being discussed at all

or change the color to whatever you want.
Im using a totally black shaft, among a few more people that i know off.
It rocks! :0

I have tried to change shaft light many times but can't get it black. Could you post your shaft settings phrenic?

@phrenic

please paste a screenshot of your shaft, i barely cannot imagine what a black shaft should look like

intentional innuendo? }

You just put a custom texture for bolt2_0 in quake\qw\textures\models. I've used a bright green shaft for about 4 years (didn't like white because that is same colour as nme skin).

Funnily enough I've just started playing with shaftlight and shaftalpha when playing LGC2.

Here you go

cheats! haxx!!!!!

I use particleshaft, like that much better


edit:


What do these commands do? I cannot notice any difference between these commands if set to 0 or 1.