No, its dead, we just need to bury it

For example, in Brazil now, the moment i made this post, there are only two people playing, and 48 in the whole world. Now lets see Quake3 Arena, 1838 players, what a difference! Lets not even compare with Counter-Strike..

Who cares about brazil? Stop trolling please.

there will always be someone whining "quake is dead"

the funny thing is, he will be whining this on a quake message board, or a quake server

...with 1800 of them being bots or people playing mongo mods like Q3's crippled CTF or, even worse, Excessive?

Who cares about the player count on FFA servers - 90% of the players playing cs:s/cod4/tf2 doesn't play it seriously enough to ever leave the FFA servers and play a team game.

The quake series (qw/q2/q3) and warsow has more competive scenes, and is a lot better organized.

Those big new games are only for the power houses of eSport.... Why do you think Q3 is this years FPS game for 1on1 at like every major event?

New games are made for the masses, and the masses ain't gonna become pro. Games that are easy to master won't ever become competive and have as great a scene as we have.

Players from other scenes show a lot of interest in QW, if you read news/comments at esreality.com, there is a lot of people who knows the names top QW players, even tho they don't play the game. It's the same for Q3, i know a lot of the top Q3 players even tho i don't play Q3.

How many TF2/COD4 players do you know?

Edit.: Didn't saw his second post!

--//--

Spirit,

Don't waste your time arguing with azarman! He is persona non grata at brazilian quake comunity, for the use of cheats, exploit of server's bugs and anything else he could do to fuck with the game.

btw.: I do care about Brazil!

Thats exatclty it. What counts in the commercial point is the mass, doesn't matter if 90% of it is newbie. Games like CS had/have their big leagues like CPL not because its the most skilled game, but because of the absurd amount of people playing it.
Only in my city, Fortaleza (population ~2,5 millions), when i used to play CS a bit, the amount of people playing it on a regular basis was bigger than the entire Q1+Q2+Q4 active players. And that's only one single city!!

Doesn't seem like you understood much of what I wrote.

Yes CS is big, but I didnt mention CS, since it has a different community than these new games that I mentionen.

If you look at the ESWC they use these games for their ESWC Masters, which has had qualifiers all around the world.

Counter-Strike 1.6
Defense of the Ancients (DOTA)
Trackmania Nations Forever
Quake III
Warcraft III

So where is UT3, COD4, TF2, C&C3, CS:S ++ random console games?

All these games are old, and exept for Q3 and WC3 they werent made because someone decided to do a commercial hit for the masses.
Counter-Strike, a free half-life mod made for fun that got more popular than any game before it.
Dota, a WC3 map (mod) made for fun and free
Trackmania Nations, a free game made for ESWC to use in their tournaments.
Quake3, old and yes made as a commercial product for the masses, but back in '99 the masses were hardcore gamers, not skill-less teens that can't handle losing. Even tho q3 was made to be a tournament game, it has been heavily modified to fit the requirements.
Warcraft 3, also old and commercial, but since it's blizzard and very much like SC, it's deffently worthy as a tournament game.

What all these games have in common, exept for what i already mentionen is the known scene of players. What makes tournaments interesting to follow is that you know the players/teams competing, seeing a bunch of random dudes playing a random new game that everyone can pick up in a week is no fun.

The CPL is dead, and it's dead because it left the hardcore gamers to get to the masses. It was fun for a season when they had Painkiller, but that was only because the q3 players picked PK up.

QW has all the same things, we have star players thats known by people outside the community, we have easy to use spectating possibilities, and even for the new players it's easy to get started, it's not easy to master, but thats another plus for QW. As it is by many thought of as a legendary game not easy to master.

And please, don't mention The CGS, as people will watch anything thats on tv.

Hehe, if all you want for QW is to have some known* players outside the community, ok.


* Which i doubt be so popular outside the community as you think they are

i'd be careful with alleging low motives to anyone here. by founding quakeworld.nu and this very forum you're posting on Zalon has at least brought one more noob to qw. (it's you)

Hehe dEus


It's funny how you choose to only comment on one line of each of my posts.

But no, thats not all I want for QW, but I mentionen it as one of the things we have. And you can doubt all you want, how popular they are.... But it's a fact that whenever there is news about QW on ESR, there is a lot of non QW'ers writing comments, and they sound like they know what they are talking about.

In your first post you said that you didnt see QW "on the road" again, unless someone put in some real money. Maybe you havnt been following the news, but QW is one of the official tournaments at DreamHack for the second time... With price money and professional broadcasting.

Lets wait until we get the spectator count from this event before we call QW dead.

And btw, how many UT3, COD4, TF2, C&C3, CS:S players can you mention? - It's not the player count on the servers that matters, it's the active player count in tournaments. To put that in perspective, NQR11 was actually the most active season ever. (EQL might be kinda slow, but thats the timing, being a summer tourney)

Yeah, i dont follow the news too much since you can see by my nick i am from Brazil, and here there's nothing besides ppl playing on the servers. No forum, no sites, no real league, nothing.

Indeed the european QuakeWorld scene is not so dead as i tought. I said "not so", but still pretty weak

Look at ESWC photo on the main site, WOW! That's a real league you can be proud of !

There is no reason to quote my entire post, when you post just after it.

Ain't this site pretty new? http://www.qwbrasil.com/ - It has news and a forum. And it's not like you have to be from europe to follow the news flow on qw.nu, yes i know it's kinda of impossible to participate due to the ping. But you can still follow the games, as QTV shows the game just as smooth with 200 in ping

I only read a little bit.

I oppose any action that moves the rookie away from the current, established, #qwrookie

I'm probably misunderstanding something, but I see no reason for #qwrookies or #rookie, except to troll and make it harder for rookies to find a place for qw

Blah this is from a thousand years ago... Mushi you trolled me.

u trolled yourself dewd =)

anyway, nice to see that 5 years later we are much better than we were. we are more mature and have more answers to give to both newcomers and existing players. congrats to all!

if 50 years from now i'm still alive, and I manage to find another quaker alive, and we play 1x1, then, quake will be alive 50 years from now...

It's simple math, a multiplayer game, needs only 2 players playing together...

QUAKE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA DIE (at least not for me...)

We should have a rookie/newbie league/tournament/ladder...and keep it for them only, at least start out that way. Then at least you got a chance that new players will attend. Those rookies/newbies are the players that will get more players to try the game. And they will only tell other friends about it if they think this league/ladder/tournament kicks ass.

So I guess that what I am saying is that we "old" guys are the ones who need to make this content. I got the time...anyone else wanna help out? Let me know I think only way to make qw go forward is to get a new fresh start...from scratch and keep the "elite" out of it and let them play in other leagues. Let them figure things out on their own without us telling them what to do or what maps they should play. Let them have fun on their own.

Salvation was a good idea but we need to think longer than that, we actually need to guide new players into the game. But this can ONLY happen with a good first impression, in other words a nice site with real elite/old players hanging out to help/guide (I know qw.nu and irc are doing a little of this already!).

I mean lets think back...what did WE do when we were newbs/rookies?

What did we do?

How did we play it?

Why did we play it?

Why did we not play only dm2, e1m2, dm3 like we do today?

These are interesting questions that should not be underestimated, even though most of us know the evolution of qw.

I can only answer for myself, but we played all kinds of maps. And an important thing: we played a lot of CTF!

CTF was groundbreaking for TDM. CTF learned you how to guard/camp...protect your base!! Protect the flag carrier!! There were no map issues, all maps were 100% fair in any aspect etc. Oh and it was also hell of a fun to get that rune of haste! Omg Haste with GL!

I can understand that newbs/rooks struggle with the maps elites play etc. And maybe they dont understand why the hell we only play 3 maps for competitive games? Maybe they think its not so fun with these limited options?

Maybe we just need to get back to our roots to get some more players inn? 3on3 dm6? 10 vs 10 death32c? Have a CTF league?

I just think we need to think WIDER to get more players inn. Lets face it...there is NOTHING wrong with the game itself. I mean if we could get 100 players to play CTF, then many of then for sure is going to pick up TDM at some point. Remember, if are new to the game, you want some fun right? Your ordinary dmm1 4vs4 is not so fun as dmm3 on dm6 or CTF. You want that RL most of the time, you want to gib your enemy most of the time, you want that quad (haste?). What you dont want to do is to run around with a BS or a NG...and at the same time try to learn the map, because you saw an elite game on youtube commented by DDK and you want to do the same. Need to start walk before we can run.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we should not try so hard to tell newbs/rooks how to play or where to play...we should only show them the path and then they should decide for themselves.

Go Kenya? lol

Well, just some brainstorming...add in anything here plz...because we need to do SOMETING!

- old'n'pwned

Wow, it must be really Link! Good to see you back And it's still the same fight as it was 10 years ago hehe

well not back for long if the community doesn't respond

the reason i "gave up" on qw was because i was tired of fighting swedish admins who all got PMed by swede elite players on the map issue.

now look were we are

nothing wrong with the game...but you know that already

Good read!
I totally agree with setting up "events" for rookies. There's one problem though - its difficult to prevent non-rookies to join the battle and spoil the fun. That aside, it would be easy to advertise a ctf/ffa night, for example twice a week. That has been tried before, with moderate success.

Even so, i believe it would work, at least during winter. Not everyone is into 4on4, for several reasons. Plain FFA becomes boring after a while, and random 1on1 or 2on2 might not be satisfying also. so its our responsability to provide alternatives. I really think these "theme nights" are an alternative to explore. Players just have to play and join the fun. This would work even for non-rookie players. Just advertise different ports for different skill levels. I would sure like to play other mods.

I hope (REALLY HOPE) that something like this will be discussed and implemented, and that players join the fun every night.

Here is another idea:

You have a site that does tournaments....with multigames/platforms. And you add QW as one of these games.

For example, you invite a clan to play one game of QW and one game of Q3 / CS / DOOM3 / whatever.

I am sure we got a bunch of QW players that are into other games as well. This will trigger curiosity and might get ppl to try out QW after they played some.

...just and idea, dunno if its good or bad.

We can also do "old-timer" events and try to get the old clans play some, for fun. Axemen vs Campbusters on e1m5/e3m2? KOFF on e1m6/e3m7? etc. Would be nice.

I have only 2 comments left to make:

This: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/topic/5893
...and This: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/topic/5942

We are discussing the "Future of QW".

I think we CANNOT have a future forgetting the GOLDEN PAST....

I'm really sad seeing CHALLENGE-TV.COM dead....
=~(