I wish someone or EzQuake Team can explain this, very simple test.

Run EzQuake ( i'm using version 1754 Win32:GL ) with Independent Physics ON
type map dm6 for example,
type show net on console, if that doesnt work type r_netstats 1

The first field called LATENCY theres a sub-field called DEV
Now, depending on the fps you use it will affect DEV value, i was playing at 200 fps and i had Dev = 2.00 MS as a minimum value always present and with Physics OFF DEV = 0 ALWAYS.
More Strange is every single frame u change it will affect DEV.
100 fps give me DEV = 4.86 MS !! alot !! the best fps i found to keep it lowest was 216 fps, sometimes goes up but it was 0 most of the times.
215 fps or 217 i get 0.54 MS

So, my question is: does this have any influence on internet connection or gameplay? Maybe thats why some ppl say Physics ON feels laggy or "heavy", that mouse/keyboard feels less responsive, or its just screen lag.
I wanted to post some screenshots but i couldnt, i dont know how (NOOB)

I'm kind of missing the point of your question. Independent physics are different physics - they do not feel the same as FPS dependent physics. Also we strongly recommend at least 200 FPS when using independent physics, lower then this doesn't give good results.

If you want to realize why the deviatoin is higher in some circumstances, take a piece of paper, draw frequency of incoming packets and frequency of client frames with and without independent physics. From here it's simple math. Your results make perfect sense.

OK, then why JohnNy_cz do u have Deviation value in localhost with Physics ON in the first place? since Physics Off is 0, and if u set cl_max77 with Physics ON u shouldnt u get same results as Physics Off ?

I think it's a mistake to put independent physics on, they feel super choppy, doesn't enhance the gameplay at all

It's pretty long to exaplin. But in case of your FPS is lower then NETWORK_FPS * 10 it's better to limit your FPS to N*NETOWRK_FPS, where N is 1,2,3,4....
In other case you'll have some latency.

Small example: serverinfo maxfps 77, 250 fps on client with fps-indep phys.
time = 0: first vga-frame is drawed, first network frame is send/received
time = 4ms: 2nd vga-frame
time = 8ms: 3rd vga-frame
time = 12ms: 4th vga-frame
time = 13ms: second netowk frame is received. but we cant reply until vga-frame will be finished
time = 16ms; 5th vga frame; second network frame send;

^^^^
So fps-indep physics give you latency from 0ms to <vga frame time>

In case of 'low' fps like 200 it's pretty big time - about 3ms. If you have 700fps it's about 0.1ms

without fps-indep physics you dont have this kind of latency at all

Perhaps its time to start increasing the maxfps on the servers? Is there any server like that allready? Or is there some reason why this isnt done.

I think this isn't done because it would actually affect the physics of the game. Higher server maxfps = you can jump longer/higher in-game.

nothing beats server enabled high fps.

well, is that a problem? if the community agrees on a new standard.. or does it become unplayable?

I dont think making it standard is a good idea, there are still people that cant get high fps and a server like that would require more bandwidth but few servers like that would please who can use high fps.

I think my post was answered by ezQuake Developer Disconnect. There IS latency if u dont use 700 fps or higher.
I notice it when i enter a server with 200 fps, move around a bit theres a small delay. I exit, disable physics using now 77 and i feel the diference.

Quoting: "without fps-indep physics you dont have this kind of latency at all"

independent physics have always been choppy and I believe they will remain like that, come on, why not enable 85 fps on server? It's not much of a difference but SO MUCH SMOOTHER for the eye

If u have 486DX100 and 10 fps in quake, then sure u can't get it smooth with or without independent physics.
Independent physics require proper settings and high fps, imo not less than 300, some ppl happy with less values. For example Def (pedant in quake configuring) was against independent physics since it was choppy for him, but he change his mind after changing some settings, however dunno what he think about it atm.

Allowing 85 client fps is bad idea. At least higher server load(CPU + bandwidth) and change in physics = different movement/tricks etc and something what I forget mention.

it is pretty much shitty mate

It's enabled by default since the last official build 1754 and noone really objected anything specific against it, including this thread. Maybe it was always choppy only for you goqsane? Let's give your config, HW specs, startup commandline, ezQuake version and try to find the source of evil.

I have to agree on proper settings but I also have to disagree with such a high fps.


Many things cause fps being more or less jerky, however you can't solve the problem by using high fps. From what I've been experimenting for a long time now (ever since the first beta FUHQuake came) with and without fps-independent physics the smoothness is a result of few things.


The most important thing seems to be using the same maxfps as your monitor refreshrate is. For example 154fps at 154Hz monitor. You can get pretty good results if you have 75Hz refreshrate and 150fps maxfps, but it is not as good as the first.
(note: using vsync will get the results even smoother, but I can't recommend it)

Second thing is the mouse polling rate. If one plays with "default" USB refreshrate for instance (125Hz) it's almost impossible to get smooth turning with any other framerate than 125fps. So increasing your mouserate would be a good idea.

Third thing is physfps/maxfps matching. It is recommended to try to match physfps value by some multiplication. For example if you have physfps 77, then your maxfps should be 154/231/308/385 or so on. This makes certain that the frametimes can be fit properly for the physfps (ie. 231fps = 4,329ms * 3 = 12,987ms = 77fps).
(note: using higher fps than your monitor refreshrate can be overkill since the monitor can only display as many frames per second it's refreshrate is. The feeling ingame, however, could change)

IMPORTANT: make sure you use pushlatency 0 and cl_nolerp 0 or otherwise you will get ghosting.


With those examples you can get ezQ running pretty nice fps-i enabled. My settings are physfps 77, maxfps 154, monitor refreshrate 154Hz and G5 uses 500Hz polling rate. This setup comes second to only "true" 154fps enabled by the server and fps-i disabled (client 154fps of course, monitor at 154Hz).


If you try any other undesired combination, results will get worse. For example 77fps/120fps/120Hz will have smooth world but objects (like enemies) seem to jitter or be jerky. If you try 77fps/154fps/120Hz the world feels jerky (because the client fps/monitor Hz doesn't match). These settings work best for the CRT monitors and not so good with TFTs, you need to experiment more with TFTs to get satisfactory result. Also if you want to test higher than monitor refresh fps, make sure you'll add considerably bigger numbers there.

heh, never understand why u use 154fps/154hz, for example I have 160hz monitor, if I set 160 fps it much more jerky comparing to 500 fps which I actually use. Note 500 fps is not even 77 * x, and still it smoooth. Also fps-i give u additional delay to network code, with 500 fps it from 0 to 2 ms, with 154 fps it more.

It must have something to do with the frametime difference and internal latencies due to fps-i mechanics. Try my settings once and you'll see.


This can be a good thing actually. If you have unstable ping (12-18ms) at 77fps then you can make it a bit more stable. Using 77/154fps will get it a bit more stable (13-16ms for example) and finetuning it to 77/150fps it will be even more stable at (13-14ms).