So from what I've seen, the visible weapon packs were no big hit. Any other ideas? Or I'll set them back to being not visible in lack of QC-flexibility.

I'd really recommend scaled down models, .. that's just 5 models or so.. download totally innoticable

when was the last time you sat foot on a qw-server goq? you're not mr. active yourself :/

I play from time to time, not very active lately, but I've NEVER seen Aquashark.

Could anyone experienced with editing .mdls scale them down? Or do something fancy

i'm the ghost of christmas past.. boo-hoo!

i play mostly on computergames.ro server (ping 12 ftw!) and also i do some rookie 4on4 pickups in #qwrookie

had a shit external connection until a little while back (very low upload bandwidth) so i wasn't playing anywhere outside my country.. can i go now officer goqsane?

no

I've listened to your criticism and made some further changes:

Done already:

Lowered SNG damage to 16, was 18. (Apollyon, tGM)
Increased SSG damage, increased SSG reload time. (equality with SNG)

Reverted armor absorption rates for YA and RA, only GA is now changed:
GA 0.4 (was 0.3), YA 0.6, RA 0.8
This is mainly for keeping a 0.2 interval so it doesn't feel weird
taking an YA with 120RA.
(Up2nOgOoD[ROCK], tGM)

Visible backpacks are now only enabled in DMM3. (keeping 3on3/4on4
tactics with hidden packs)

Spawn is delayed 900ms if you're gibbed also (consistency, irritating
moments )

Planned, not done yet:

Reverted "weapon models as backpacks", it will be changed to
display the backpack model but with custom skins. (goqsane, dEus, swi)

Unfairpacks, you only drop a weapon if killed while firing it. (Tonik)
In FFA, fairpacks are still enabled.

Try these changes at molgrum.mine.nu:28501 - 28503, don't forget
/jawnmode and /airstep

Word Tonik! Unfairpacks seems like a logical step that should have been made a long time ago, eliminating the need for everybody to fiddle with ancient weapon-scripts.

Keep up the good work molgrum.

yes

I like the unfair pack <3 and make it not possible to spawntelefrag !

FlePser:

That's actually something I've been working on and I have a partially working algorithm for spawning next to players instead of telefragging them. I can add it as a TODO!

Another idea (from my other experimental mod):

Make mega healths deplete and respawn independently from each other.
As it is now, you can pick up a mega, wait until 101h, take another mega and you'll get double depletion rate for the rest of your megatime unless you wait until you get 100h, then you'll get single depletion rate. This fix will make you get double depletion rate for just one second, then the first mega runs out and it's timer gets set for respawn (20 secs), and the second mega is depleting as normal.

But I like the gameplay choices of guarding the 2nd MH till your current MH runs out or sacrificing the depletion time by taking it right away if you're in a hurry.

Dunno about independent respawns. That might be good.

It will make it easier to time two MH's, now if you get both MH's they'll respawn at the same time which makes it pretty hard to get them both again.

Lowered SSG reload time, now it's the same time as RL. (jOn, Adde, Hooraytio)

Added:

Unfairpacks enabled in DMM1.
Fairpacks enabled in DMM3.

Thoughts?

Added:

New "fair spawns" spawnmode, generally it will set spawn probabilities relative to how many times you spawned on a specific spot (the more spawns, the less probability). For more in-depth detail see http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewpoll.php?pid=23616#p23616
This one rox on DM4 for sure.

Planned:

Write spawning stats at match end. ([RA: 8] [QUAD-TELE: 10] [150-ENTRY: 7] etc...)

Got an idea of increased nails/bullets pushback (not more damage), I think it would make them better bunnyblockers and trick weapons for more usability. Comments?

thats in jawnmode already?

No, only damage, spread pattern, reload and velocity have been changed with certain weapons.

<insert something about playing promode instead here>

Do we still need weapon scripts? Getting rid of them would bring more tactical-angles into the game, 4on4 that is. Seriously...

fix:

Fairpacks is something in that way (dropping last fired weapon), antifairpacks is simply the same thing as weaponscripts except you don't need them client-side anymore.

General question: Is spawntelefragging a skill (to avoid it) or should it be replaced with a different spawning method (like spawning next to the players instead)?

that doesnt get rid of the scripts tho, neither brings the changes to teamplay i imagined..meaning when ppl would have to choice weapon manually it will slower the gameplay down abit but in return ppl need to think more of their action before so they are prepared with right gun in right situation etc. of coz the pack issue has some effect too..on that we are in the same page tho.


plus it would make qw more noobie friendly...i dont think there are such scripts in any other fps game? more nature way imo.

I believe that would only be possible with ugly noscript ruleset enforcements in clients :/
The other option is to make a delay when switching weapons and that would take away alot from the game.

Implemented anti-spawntelefrag in jawnmode, instead of spawntelefragging another player you'll spawn next to them instead. Still in beta-version, but tested for all spawns on DMZ1++.

Increased nails pushback a little.

Servers are updated with the latest mod!

double "yes"

Here's a few of my problems with jawnmode. Take note that many of these arguments are based off 4on4 gameplay though, so perhaps they might not fit to FFA. But still, once a certain mode gets popular in one gameplay, it's easier for it to spread to others.

* Your xy-speed is preserved through teleporters and is capped according to a cvar k_teleport_cap (use /teleportcap <percent to subtract from original speed>, a good value is 24.
-- Why? Not that it won't speed the game up, mind you, once people get used to it, but it changes gameplay too drastically without any reason given that I can see. You are weak to ambushes when coming out of a teleporter, just as you're supposed to be - why change that? It's part of the game as far as I'm concerned. Don't see any reason to change it.
* Lowered SNG damage to 16, was 18.
-- Once again, why? SNG isn't overpowered, so I don't see why you would want to lower it (unless, of course, the original value was something lower, and this is the second change to it).
* Increased SSG damage (84 is max, was 64), increased SSG reload time (0.8 s, was 0.7 s).
-- SSG is kinda weak so I can see this change. Not that it's a very big change, but still. Ok I guess.
* Reverted armor absorption rates for YA and RA, only GA is now changed (0.4 instead of 0.3).
-- Assuming you take 300 points of damage, you'd loose 200 health and 100 GA (before this change), making 100G/200H == 200R/100H. I don't see why you would want to disrupt that balance, and make GA+Mega > RA.
* When you're gibbed, you'll not be able to respawn instantly (the same 900 ms wait time applies there).
-- I'm clueless as to this change. Maybe there's a reason why you're not supposed to be able to spawn right away, but I don't know about it.
* Unfairpacks enabled in DMM1, fairpacks enabled in DMM3.
-- Unfairpacks removes the possibility to drop "hidden" packs. If you don't know what that is, let me paint you a picture. We're on DM2, there's an enemy RL in bigroom who's just chased me to below quad. I know there's an enemy at quad, and my health is very low, so I won't survive going past him. I shoot 2 boomsticks at him to get his attention, and back into the corner below high rl, then swap to RL as he fires at me (without firing another shot). This drops a pack that more than likely the quad guy will ignore, and the big guy won't realize is there. A hidden pack that I can pick up after I get an armor in big and come back. Unfairpacks removes this possbility, and in so doing removes an aspect of deception that I like, particularly in 4on4 (which is pretty much the only mode that's played in dmm1 nowadays).
-- Fairpacks don't matter much, since it's only active in DMM3. While I might not want to give that guy a weapon who just killed me, and I might not have time to shoot a boomstick before dying, I can understand why some would want this mode active (mainly those who don't want to play with a script). Personally I don't give a rats ass either way. I'd prefer it to be off for simplicitys sake, but that's about it.
* New "fair spawns" spawnmode, read at http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewpoll … 616#p23616.
-- No objections to this one really.

edit:
General question: Is spawntelefragging a skill (to avoid it) or should it be replaced with a different spawning method (like spawning next to the players instead)?
-- It's a skill, and one I haven't mastered. I wouldn't want to see this removed, simply because people can't be arsed to avoid standing on spawns when people die. Of course, there are maps where walking on spawns can't be avoided, but these are generally pretty small maps and can't be played with more than 4 players (so should be easy enough to avoid walking on spawns when someone dies).

Holy crap dakoth, that was alot of feedback! I appreciate it (especially the 4on4 aspect which hasn't been up at all) and I'll try to answer most of it


The thought behind this is that speed will be awarded, so if you're quick before entering the teleporter you'll still keep some of that speed (it's nice especially on aerowalk, it feels great flying around that map). The algorithm works like this: Your speed will first get capped by a certain value, and if your speed is 300 or less, you'll get 300 ups out of the teleporter (standard push). The speed cap that we finally got to by experimenting was 24%, which means:
300 ups -> 300 ups
400 ups -> 304 ups
500 ups -> 380 ups
600 ups -> 456 ups

So as you can see, you do need alot of speed to be able to maintain a reasonable speed through the teleporters, which makes bunnyjumping-mastery alot more important.


This change was simply due to user feedback. Since the nails now fly faster, many complained that the SNG was too powerful, so I lowered the damage by 2 and it seemed to be an okay tweak.


I know about this balance and I haven't touched it What I changed was the absorption _rate_, not the _amount_, so GA will absorb damage alot faster (and be gone faster too, logically), but it will not destroy this balance that makes dm6 and other maps with GA+MH vs RA great. Test it out if you don't believe me


Normally, if you die without being gibbed, you'll have ~1 second of time where you cannot respawn. In jawnmode, this is applied to the case where you're gibbed as well. Also it's inconvenient with a 0 ms respawn delay, since when you're gibbed you might be shooting and instead of shooting you'll respawn unintentionally and clumsily.


I actually didn't know about the hidden pack tactic, unfairpacks will surely destroy that one. Fairpacks would make such scenarios possible though (for example, you fire RL at low, then run to quad and die -> you'll drop an RL-pack without anyone knowing).
Both of these settings are simply to make weaponscripts useless, that's it. I'm not sure about what mode might suit better for fairpacks/unfairpacks. Maybe one of them is always a better choice than the other?


IMO it's more than just standing on spawns chilling. You might have 200/200 quad and you're in a hurry trying to spot out enemies. What suddenly happens? Yeah the classic, you get spawntelefragged. It destroys what could have been a perfect quadrun in a snap, but also it might bring a laugh to the crowd.
So basically, this is one of the features that I think needs a tweak since it's too random, but I'm not sure what it should be. Maybe a 2.6 second safe-time that you can be on spawns (the ktpro feature)?

Again, thanks for the gigantic input.

Edit: If you have the energy, feel free to also comment on the original jawnmode tweaks.