Today's important question is should we still allow MQWCL to be used in quakeworld leagues? The point of this thread is to check the need for MQWCL mostly because it's rather too old for nowaday's QW. The biggest problem is that it is no longer developed and it's been like that for years now.

This means the fact that there can be security holes available that allow different types of cheating. The problem is that only so few players use the client so the possible holes could be undetected at this time. Also if there are any, is there anyone to fix those? This leads to only one question: are there enough people who would like to continue using MQW as their primary qw client so that we still should allow it on leagues.

My personal opinion is no. Both FuhQuake and ezQuake are more or less up-to-date and they have working security modules (you might feel differently about security modules though) and I'm certain they can be configured properly for even weaker pcs. There will be time in the future when the support for even FuhQuake will be questioned if it doesn't get updated at some point but currently we are limiting this conversation to MQW only.

I can't say I know what to vote here, I wonder about examples of events where players using MQW has exploited it to cheat? Never heard of anything like that myself so I was quite surprised to see that. What kind of cheats can you manage to do with it, is it enough to make it banished, is it not possible to do the same stuff with fuhquake/ezquake?

The issue with this though is that a few people still play with this client and feel comfortable with it, so instead of a ban I would rather see an update of the client to cover the security leaks.

We will most likely not see an update from this client as Azazello has been out of the loop for quite a while now?

(edit: fixed name )

Azazello is the creator of mqwcl

As i know many ppl still use MQWCL cos it works very good with shit connection.
And it have(had) diffirent(better) mouse code.

Uh, D:?!

I can agree with B1aze. I refused to switch from MQWCL to FuhQuake for aaaaaages because the movement just felt really, really shitty. I tried to explain my problem to FuhQuake users and they were all like "what what what? how so, fuh movement is great!" but there were other people with exactly the same problem that knew exactly what I was talking about (Ayv, Raket,...)

i still can't be bothered to do all cfg-changes that is needed to switch to another client so that's why I still stick to MQWCL, I don't think anyone using it have some big plans to look for security holes and find new ways to cheat. I can't see why it should be banned now and not some years ago in that case.

Everything about "cheating" is just hypothetical at this point. It was merely an observation on where being out-of-date and not developed can lead to. Also the cfg changes between clients are rather minimal (like weapon 7321 in mqw would be impulse 7 3 2 1 in ezq) so using the old config wouldn't cause too much trouble, probably 2-3 mins at best.

Anyway in the end it's the league admins who decide on these things. The point of this thread is just to get opinions/facts/whatever from the players so the decision can be thought over.

"it's rather too old" - what does that mean and how it is an argument for anything?
"it's not under development" - same
I have to ask, why don't you also suggest applying the same scheme to FuhQuake? How have you decided that MQWCL is too old and FuhQuake is not?

Banning any of those clients will most propably make at least 1 person leave QuakeWorld scene, not banning it will cause nothing.
In the end, it's the players who play the leagues.

Also, source codes are available, anyone can fix critical stuff. It'd be nice if another release of FuhQuake was done with support of colored text (even filtering it out and displaying as white would be enough), since it's the only incompatibility that you feel during the gameplay.
However there's this thing with "security modules".

If I remember correctly there already have been some leagues that only allowed FuhQuake and ezQuake. Noone cared though.

Do you even have to ask? Didn't I already give the possibilities behind this?


Same thing here. Which one hasn't been developed in longer period of time.


I just wish there was this "someone" or "anyone" who would do and check things from at least point of security.

Which kind of security hole you could imagine to appear?

Anything from an aimbot to a wallhack to modified models/items that will pass f_modified checks or be otherwise undetectable.

Wouldn't it be possible simply to take the ezQuake code, hack cheats in and modify the f_whatever and security.dll things to respond well if I wanted to cheat?
I don't see a reason to ban an old client.

yeah don't ban it please

it's a historical client.. deserves some respect

Agree with Spirit, you could just apply bigfoot's patch and do whatever you want and distribute it all over the internetz. It would classify as a clean build, but noone does it because it's lame and QW-players knows that the game gets boring with cheats (and if you're caught you'll probably be wearing a dumb-hat for life).

Well a lot of players have been caught. But nowdays we only hear an occasional ILF-joke. Qmole for instance made a timer that timed everything on the map for the whole team.

Cheats in qw? C'mon. For last 2 years I've seen someone checking f_modified maybe 3 times in my league games. I played many games without security module cause I was using ezq-cvs version. No one cared so neither did I. We are mature and we play the game for fun so banning old client just because someone thinks someone else could use it to cheat is kinda abstract to me even though I stopped using it in ~2000 .

That sounds like alot of evil spam for the team as well

Keep in mind you wouldn't need to read teammate binds like took, status, wait, etc

Oh god, we need some independant(unprejudiced) team like MTV have "myth busters" for destroy the such myths ;]

i don't think thats MTV

rofl good idea qqshka

Even if it's a myth, still there are people who are unable (not having the knowledge, lazy, unwilling) to "tune" the settings so that they get same feeling in all clients. And they would get pissed - for no real reason IMHO.