Yeah I remember those old ffa demos too (I've been following Frogbot since 1998). However I think skill10 is better than skill0 because otherwise there is not any real challenge. Requiring zero deaths kinda goes against the principles of FFA which is just about pure fragging and promoting aggressive play. ztndm3 is a great map for FFA with frogbots since the waypoints are pretty solid (they are complete armour whores and also not bad at getting quad).

One thing Fuh suggested he would like to see for IBC was 10min Aerowalk duel, highest frag count wins but you must have zero deaths. Personally I think maybe 5min would be better to make the contest more open to all - otherwise less skilled players would not easily be able to survive 10mins and post a demo.

Plz no more povdmm4... can't play more than 15 minutes that map before I get so bored that I die.... ;(((((((((((((((((((((((

I second that... I played it for 1 hour, uploaded a mediocre score and now I cant stand another round on that map tbh.

endif midairbot tourney, 5min or less, dropbackpacks off (so no lotto 5xbackpack quad with faster roxs)

extralols @ renzo and lethalwiz :>:>

Guys,

Take a look at the dmm4_* set of maps. You can grab it here:
http://gamefiles.virginmedia.com/blueyondergames/quake/maps/

I think we can use them, but I'm not sure if there are waypoints for it. I didn't understand this
waypoint thing.. :-/ Is it on the .bsp file itself, or qwprogs.dat? How do we do that?

good good
as for the povdmm4 this week, i know some are sick of it, but i bet some are interested in how they would do on povdmm4 after all those other dmm4 maps

me, for example, i got my first ever 40% on povdmm4 :>

Yes Phil, after playing all those maps it seems that Pov got a lot easier. My Animality score just proves it

Wow, well done Helm. It's the highest LG eff. (62.9%) so far on povdmm4. If we put together with
the highest scores (181 by Zip, 179 by Mur and 178 by Thorn) we can have 11k on pov...

Anyone? :-)

note: phil has 1337 posts.

Hey Phil,

I have a suggestion.. Why isn't the lgc2bot number of frags and LG eff. relevant? Perhaps is a good idea to include those numbers in the final calculation. What's the point of making a good score (frags/lg) but being a 'punchbag' during the game?

What do you people think?

i have no idea what those scores you get it.. like.. 130 frags wtf?

From the LGC2 homepage (http://lgc.quakeworld.nu/?action=about):

Rules:
- Your score = Your LG% * frags

So, we can understand how the calculation works, we're not using the "number of kills", but the amount of "points" you get. I think that no more explanation is needed.

Got it?

Damage frags. 100 points of damage dealt is 1 frag or "score". Hit 4 cells, get 1 frag (total damage 120). Hit 6 more cells and you have 3 ((4+6)*30) = total damage dealt 300).

Note that you get no "extra frag" from killing the opponent, so basically the first frag of the round is 450 damage dealt (200 from HP and 250 from RA) and it results to score of 4, but the second frag you get is already score of 9.

Sfinx, I always thought about that! I mean, it should be relevant if the bot has much less frags on your demo, although you scored less than the person above you. But in the meantime, this isn't a dodging championship(otherwise I would rule it hauuha). What's the purpose on dodging a lot but not killing at the same time? If only having a great dodging skill were enough to win games, I would never lose uauhauha

A long time ago when I was involved in IBC I was thinking about this.
The problem is that if you take bot performance into account, then you are arguably bringing more 'luck' into the equation rather than pure aiming and aggression.

I think if any score adjustment is made for bot damage then it needs to be weighted so as not to be overly significant. As an example you could use a formula something like this:

Score = (lg% * player_score) - (10*bot_score)

The bot_score multiplier I just chose arbitrarily, but hopefully this wouldn't have an overbearing influence on scores. Effectively it would mean that e.g. someone who conceded 20 less frags than you would be 200pts better off.

Of course the real question is whether people think taking the bot frags into account is a good idea in the first place - arguably it promotes more defensive/'CS' play. As long as the multiplier is kept low enough however it should ensure that it rewards careful players while still requiring them to play aggressively.

I don't know. I just don't think that the bot's score should be taken into account. I've played many games which I loose, but still got better lg effi than the oponent. Who wins? The one with most frags... I think that the purpose of the LGC is to see who can destroy the most with the lg, not who dodges best. But on the otherhand If both players got like 60% and 152 frags, but the damage taken by the bot is different, that should be taken into account

Not so fast mr. Helm. In our private and parallel dodging competition, I'm crushing you, check my new score. :-D

Well, I just think that 'not to be hurt' makes part of the game, and it should be taken into account. Maybe in LGC3, who knows..

You can't be serious. I actually checked the demo so I could see what you mean by "dodging". So, in what part of the demo I can see ANY dodge moves?

(No need to answer btw)

Why so much hate in your heart?

Because I really expected something....


Anyway, regarding dm6dmm4. I spawn outside the map every now and then (at least once a round) so I actually have to suicide. Also, the bot remains on the longer upper tube and will not come out of there and floods rockets. I played this map for 15-20 minutes (the same amount I played last week's povdmm4) and that's all the time I'm going to give it.

Hehe. Looks like Renzo has burned out (as has mur?). Maybe us newbs will have a chance after all

But yes, some of these maps are being played for the first time, so these are sort of beta-test runs, as well.

Cheers

Not really, I just hate when there are bugs in the maps. How can I spawn outside the map anyway? (like that midair spawn in povdmm4 using FBCA sometimes)

Perhaps I'll play some score a bit later when I have more time.

I saw some 'dodging' on dmm4_1 in terms of moving very close to the bot on the Y-axis when it is in the air, i.e. getting in underneath it. Frogbot doesn't seem that hot at downwards vertical shafting, hence the very low bot frags on a couple of those demos.

Had a quick go on dm6dmm4, problem for me is when the bot drops down below and hides away somewhere

It also happened to me. I was keeping 63%, hitting all respawns and then suddenly, I respawned outside the map...

Renzo I don't know what you were expecting... a magical display of dodging? I just managed to get "less hurt" by the bot, as you can see in the bots score in my demos. Sfinx is my friend, and also rival, we were just joking with the "best dodging" thing

I figured as much.

Anyway the respawn outside map happens when the bot is going trough tele at the same time you are respawning. And I saw a lot of "lgc2bot suicides" messages when I tried that map again yesterday.

By popular demand, I have integrated how the bot performs into the site output. You can now see the new "Pwnage" column, and you can also sort by it (add showall=1 to see all demos)

The implementation is: difference in scores, in terms of bots score: (lg * frags - bot_lg * bot_frags) / (bot_lg * bot_frags)

Then, I multiply it by 100.0% to translate it into percent:

The idea is that if you have 0%, that means you scored the same as the bot. If you have -%, well, you aren't pwning much, because the bot is actually beating you. If you have 100% pwnage, that means you scored exactly twice as the bot. Also, it is in percentage terms, because I think the official results should still be independent of bot performance (such as it is...), and therefore the different number format is there just to distance itself from the actual Score (1st column), and not to be confused with it.

Some observatrions: vamp1re is on top for one of the weeks, and he was the first to suggest this idea to me privately, and now we know why Also, helm is indeed the Pwnage-ator (for now). Finally, LGC1 (and maybe IBC) has some entries that have suspiciously low bot LG% (anything below 30%) which suggests that a bot skill less than 10 was used. I'll leave those entries in there for now, anyway.

edit:
i've fixed the two blatantly erroneous demos (de_duster, and ui (tsk tsk ui!!!)).

No doubt about that! :-DD

I like the idea, it isn't used for the final result, but we can use it like some kind of motivation. And of course, make arrogant jokes like: "Look now who is the real PWNER of povdmm4 of all times!" :-D

Download links for some of the demos aren't working, e.g: http://lgc.quakeworld.nu/demos/20071109_151942.sfinx.qwd.zip (Forbidden)