razor:

Could you evaluate on what exactly sucks about raised SSG damage? Even with the raised damage it's still not even close to RL/LG, so it's still a middle-tier weapon which doesn't break the QW gameplay at all.

no its not close to rl/lg but it is CLOSER, and it is imo not supposed to be close to them either?
to me it's good the way it is, i wouldnt play with these changes no matter how you tweaked them
something i would play for FUN is if you tweaked the dmg to crazy levels. Perhaps all weapons the exact same.
but starting with new dmg settings and weapons changes after 10 years just feels... boring and somewhat pointless.. sorry
i have never ever thought in the billion games i played that i felt that this and that damage need to be higher or lower

Whoa, pretty fanatic there razor! Fair enough, I respect that you have a stance on the issue but I still haven't seen a good argument for a weak SSG
BTW, is the SSG tweak the only tweak you concider breaks your gameplay?

Even at 96 max damage (> 100 isn't the best idea) the sheer utility of RL/LG relegates the SSG to middle tier.

BTW jawnmode isn't just tweaks of weapon damages, it tweaks all kinds of other things related to gameplay, for example spawns.

vb: no i already said i thought some of the other small things was okey... like the body filter is totally harmless
but it was just the weapons i thought wasnt good

molgrum:
SSG already have enough dmg imo... you changed it to 84 max dmg right? it's a close range weapon which already is devastating at some points..
like you can kill a spawn with 2 buckshots, but then you have to hit 2 full loads which isnt always easy...
with more damage you would just need like 1 full hit and then a little one that finnish him off.. i mean you could almost run around and spawnfrag with a ssg ok perhaps not but still...

and if you face a rl guy at close range with ssg it is good as it is now... you could manage to kill him if he broests in you etc.. or both dies...
but with more damage the ssg would maybe even be better than the rl... cause the rl guy would take more damage from the ssg plus the broest-dmg

razor:

For 84 damage, you have to be REALLY close. Usually you probably damage 68, with skill you can do the 84 damage so it's really just about rewarding the closer ranges more. These are the maximum units away you have to be with the new SSG for certain damages:

84 dmg -> 96 units
76 dmg -> 112 units
68 dmg -> 144 units

Compare it with the regular SSG where you will do 56 damage at a maximum 160 units away. So basically it's just a larger spread with increased damage that makes the weapon more close range. This would probably only be utilized in two situations, when you fly at your opponent but he can't knock you back, and when you sneak up on your opponent to get a point blank shot.
Spawnfragging with this would surely be possible given that your opponent spawns directly next to you, can't see any other situation

molgrum: Did you increase the reload time too? 700ms is too quick IMHO for 84.

Yeah it's at 800ms, same as RL.

well i just simply dont agree.. i think all the weapons are just fine the way they are. And i dont know, it just feels wrong to mix around with this stuff.
They feel sacred and tabu to mixtre with
It's like starting to mix around with the size of the football, and trying to make the ultimately perfect size that the football should have, but
in the end most footballers prolly wanna play with the size they are used to in a competetive environment at least...

razor:

Well as I said, these tweaks are made with a lot of thought behind them, nothing is too taboo for me to tinker with
I'd rather imagine how the tweak would turn out if it became a part of the gameplay, but of course you have to think if people would be arsed to learn a different reload time (actually, the original SSG is the only weapon with it's own reload time of 0.7 seconds, the new reload time of 0.8 seconds causes less reload times to have in your mind, 0.1, 0.5 and 0.8 seconds).

But yeah, the SSG tweak seems to be the most controversial of them all, I'm still gonna push for it though because I simply think it's justified to make it a better close-combat weapon (of course balancing it to be worse on longer ranges!) and have less reload timings to keep in the head. Whenever I pick up SSG/SNG, I want it to feel like I can do something useful with these weapons, so it's more of a weapon profiling if you will. That feeling is simply not that present at the moment...

razor> Funny how they mess with the balls (NO PUN INTENDED!) in competitive environments all the time then. Every world championship brings a new special made ball.

i dont think they mess with the size ? last wc had a lighter ball right? lets say that is the body filter then
but anyway.. you get the point, skip the stupid sport comparison

Hey who brought the stupid sport comparison up in the first place?

me?... it was 2 comments ago, im not that forgetting
i was just saying nevermind about it because you get my point without it and where i stand on this

I get the point that you're used to the old SSG, but it seems that's the only argument for the old SSG? I mean, the new SSG wouldn't be overpowered and it makes more sense to be a good close-combat weapon (to me at least).
Am I missing out an aspect here? I might just be thinking about dueling and not how it would turn out in teamplay games, but the goal is to make it more utilized for close-combat, it's not like you're mashing down anything that moves like some kind of sniper rifle

Edit: BTW, I simply think the discussion would lead nowhere if you see these tweaks as something to become a new standard, see it more as it would have been in an alternative league. People have played with the old settings for 11 years and gotten good at it, even if it's a rather minor change I don't aim to get it into the oldschool leagues.

So what's going to happen with the current jawnmode?

Johnny_cz:

Read: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=29449#p29449

molly's jawnmode is just going to be renamed AFAIK.

It is going to be renamed as well as commands and variables, I don't want KTX to infringe any VB copyrights.
Molgrum, NOW would be a good moment to give a new name.

call it /yawnmode

We should have a naming competition and a poll between the best names!

then the top 3 names will have a separate poll. then top 2, just like the olympic city vote.

I think we could call it French-mode.

ed: think of it as football / American football. It's the same game, but different rules

lol

This mode is only maintained by KTX team via Molgrum, which doesn't have write access to the sources, and I don't think he is french
lol at FlePser for the name... Like it

+1

call it /promode

+1

best name ever

I have some names in mind, but sure feel free to toss out any proposals you might have and I'll maybe create a poll later on. I hope vb doesn't mind a little delay?

/molgrumode

call it /pr0nmode

/fairmode

+

/fairmode sound good