Is there different spawntimes in the newer quakes? Would be nice the hear id´s thoughts(results) on the matter.

You're not really comparing Warsow with QW, are you? Right now how many players Warson has besides its developers? What's the history of the game? I think the best moment of Warsow was the movie made by pez.

Look, I don't think developers are evil, your work is very important. But sometimes you guys think things only in terms of making a better program and you should consider that now, after almost 12 years, some mistakes became part of the game.

I play the game almost every day, I don't for f*** sake think of it only as a program. Oh my god.

lol

Did I said you're not players?

i never really knew/noticed there were these random spawn times until you said so

have to say i really doubt there are enough players who really care about this to make it worth the effort of having it changed on all the servers etc. .. but if there are, i dont really see any problems with it either

(and molgrum, i always thought it was totally possible to avoid ANY spawn telefrag as long as you dont walk on the spawn? (have to say ive never been 100% sure about the dm3 tele area, but seems to go fine lately)

reppie:

Totally true, you'll never be spawntelefragged if you don't touch the spawn-area However what I was proposing was to be able to feel safe if you haven't seen a death message for a while, but that's a secondary opinion that arose from this thread, primarily I think it's just an unsmooth element to have these respawn-times.
The dm3 area is tricky, I usually ask a teammate to kill himself and stand on spawns to see how to move, at least you'll know what walls etc to move at.

I would only support a replacement of random respawns with less than 900ms provided gibs are still 0ms and the minimum can be set by the client's userinfo or even have it tell the server it should use old 0ms,3*900,1100,1500 if wanted.

Hah, I like the idea where the "random likers" would choose to have the lame randomness themselves, me totally like

Any more comments on this? 51% wants constant respawn delays, keep on voting and let's see if the change could happen.

shit will not happen.

ah, it not happen because:

5) Annoyance factor

- Many things annoy me in qw, but is it really a reason to get rid of something? Some people get annoyed by something, others don't care and the rest likes it.

thx. qqshka > god.

Well right now the majority doesn't like it... but it could of course change later on since far from everyone has voted.

great there vege!

#1 its up 2 the coders to get this, all you can do is to come up with suggestions if the coders dont wanna add it, then so be it, dont TRY to force shit.
#2 serveradmins haveto like it )))
#3 leagueadmins haveto like it )
#4 players.... (or should this be #1? nah)

Arghh.
You all trying to kill qw that i love so much.
First, you enable fallbunny, but it is SKILL to fall from high and continue to bunny. You need to have better aircontrol, choose right places to jump and so on.
And now you trying to remove difference between respawn after gibbing and normal die.
I always tried to kill enemy from sg cos i know that he can't respawn so quickly as after rl gib.
And i always trying to force enemy to kill me from rl when i low on health cos i know that i will respawn immediately.
And from my POV its the skill.

Just leave it as it is now.
Please.

So it's both a reason NOT to change as it is to change it. It's so small who cares?

The discussion is already over -- there won't be any changes. Didn't you get it?

B1aze:

Then keep the gib/normal delay difference - as that is not random. The 0 ms gib delay is still awkward if you meant to attack with the mouseclick though

Fallbunny is off topic.

Will this never end? Change this, change that, add this, remove that. I love the work a lot of people put in. Nice installers, nice packages, graphics, columns, leagues, you know - whatever. There is a whole lot of good stuff going on in the QW scene but then there is this crusade against everything that is random. Where the hell does that come from? Random is bad? This is silly. Back in the 80's we had "Rör inte min kompis" pins you could buy.. I want to buy a "Do not touch my QuakeWorld!"-pin and wear all day long. DO NOT TOUCH THE GAMEPLAY CODE. DO NOT MAKE THINGS LESS RANDOM. DO NOT CHANGE STUFF!.. GRAHHH!!

Less random does not mean more skill. Skill is adapting to the hand you've been dealt. There are moments when you go "WTF, he spawned there _AGAIN_?" and moments when you go "Wow, RA and a pack waiting for me here, thank you!"... that is all part of the game.

Please, if you really want to make a new game with zzzz-Mode, airstep and all the other changes you preach.. fork off from QW and create a completely different game.

kryddturken:

Please read this thread thoroughly, from the beginning, and then come with a response that is not off topic.

Interesting reading this article. I would not like to see this anyway. It's a good perspective from a research point of view. of course the luck factor gets lower. The skill curve of quakeworld will be bent to a straighter line. This is something people have to ask them self if there's something they want.

Point is: Will this be an impact to old players and their old playingstyle, or the "real quake order" ?


EDIT: cleanup

// Renzo

Yes of course it was off-topic Molgrum, since we do not agree at all. Let's keep this shit simple from now on. Do not change the game. Thanks. bye .

i want instant respawn, whats the point of lying dead wating?

I'd like to understand what the rules are on this forum - can you simply go ahead and start several off-topic discussions on a thread (yes even the forum administrator seems to be keen on this and jump into the offtopic-talk)?

raket:

I'd like for you to elaborate on what you mean that the learning curve will be more straight because you reduce randomness, do you mean that it actually has a skill-wise point to it?

kryddturken:

If you feel like making a response that evolves the discussion in this thread, please do so. If not, keep away. *evil eyes*
Thanks.

There doesn't seem to be explicit rule that disallows offtopic talk, however it's not desired. In this thread raket obviously stated he will say something offtopic, and obviously he was trying to prove some point.


Cry me a river :..\

I'm gonna call krydturken!

I'll clean this thread then.

Well just tried to figure if it was or not. The statement was rather a though then a truth.


A perfect player understand when to shot, a new player don't know shit and just spams.
The perfect player predicts when to shot by interpreting the death message (in the gibbed case)

By removing the random time you should also remove the different death animation otherwise it is not logical. What if someone gets spawned when the death animation is still running?

Problem #2, It's possible to bores the dead guy. If he shows up in front of a death animation and you try to shot him you will hit his corpse and not him.
If it have impact on routine and making it easier (or more logical) to time when people show up again it's really wrong to remove the randomness.
The idsoftware maybe had this in mind because of shooting the corpse is possible? (.. or is this just another kt* bug?)

Ok Renzo, thanks for clearing it out.

raket:

I must say I don't really understand that code you wrote, I'll have to get back to you there.
I agree that a perfect player understands when to shoot (prediction), that's why I wanted to start a discussion about the randomness.

My small theory here:
Random spawn delays -> Spamming is encouraged since you can never know when the spawn will be. Bad for prediction.
Non-random spawn delays -> Prediction is possible, you wait the 900ms or whatever and then click to spawn, or choose to delay it if you desire.
Both cases -> Possibility to delay spawn times.

What I understand of raket's theory:
Making the spawns non-random takes away the skill that experienced players have learned about them. You may be right here, that experienced players can "handle" this in a better way, but still there is no prediction-skill that I can see, only spam-skill. I don't think I would beat dag just because the spawntimes were non-random

And yes, if you choose the most common spawn delay out of the 5, which is the 900ms that happens in 3/5 cases, you can simply discard the other 2 animations without any big impact on movies.

Problem #2: Hehe, my qualified guess is that the id software guys didn't have anything like this in mind when doing these animations, they simply drew 5 animations and said "ok these look cool, we'll use 'em". I haven't actually experienced that you can shoot corpses, so I can't give an answer here. But even though, you're saying that removing the randomness would be bad because then you could "time the corpses"? To me that actually sounds mighty fine (increased prediction, less lottery)

If you think it would be a more dull game with only one constant respawn time, another suggestion is to make the animations play in a sequence, for example:

1: 1100ms
2: 900ms
3: 1500ms
4: 900ms
5: 900ms

This is how the animations are numbered before being randomized, playing them in sequence would fulfill raket's wish of confusion for inexperienced players while still leaving room for routine and skill. However this may be a bad solution because of the fact that you can't do anything about this time at all, you can only keep it in mind before you bore. This makes it a very weak solution unless you actually remember the slow time and avoid boreing on the enemy then, if even possible.
But still, it's better than total randomization where you have no clue at all.

A method where your spawntime is determined of how badly you were hurt before you died for example would be more skill-dependent, where you seek out to become as hurt as possible to spawn the fastest.
I assume this is more what b1aze would be ok with.