As a quake3cpm player, and as a quakeworld rookie, I was wondering why shaft is a forbidden topic in quakeworld.

All other shaft animations seem to be considered cheats, and even the implemented gl_lightning 1 detailed particle shaft seems to be considered a cheat by some people.

I wonder why this is, why is the quakeworld community so against different shaft animations, and why are models like this http://gfx.qwdrama.com/details/42/ considered a cheat?

I don't get the reasoning behind it, a cheat to me is,
Something that takes over a function the player should perform himself.
Using a tool, external program, or technique to gain an unfair advantage over the opponent.

But how does a different animation give you such advantage, or take over a function?

You could say that a straight shaft animation gives you an advantage, where as it's just less anoying really, not 'easier' nor does it give you uberaim magically.

Any decent player with straight shaft still wouldnt outaim any player that has been playing with the default shaft animation for a long time, it's all a matter of user preference and getting used to.

I think this was a bit different topic when the cl_fakeshaft command was banned too, then the straight shaft would give more of an edge than it does if you use cl_fakeshaft 1 at the moment.

I'm no good shafter though, but as you aren't allowed to change any model to be compliant to the f_modified command, i think it's like it should be at the moment.

Edit: For reference: A list of models/sounds checked by the f_modified command

u can change lg color by changing bolt2_0.png

gl_lightning 1 and other animation allows you to see your opponent better when he shooting your face

Personally i don't think that shaft is a CHEAT, since it doesn't make you shaft better, but yea...
it puts away the big annoying shaft, but... once again, that's not enough reason to call it a cheat imo...
since you can practically remove the shaft itselfe.

Magic cmd: r_shaftalpha

- But maybe you guys also thinks r_shaftalpha is a cheat?

In FTE you can change your shaft however you want, this is disabled in NQR due to the whole "cheat aspect", but right now would be a good time to start discussing it and maybe it will become legal in the future...

Doesn't work in ruleset smackdown

Lots of replies, yet nobody has yet been able to explain WHY some consider it a cheat.

Why not allow certain models, what harm can it cause?

Terife, because you have to draw a line.

edit: then perhaps one can argue where to draw this line, But an easy approach is to not allow any model changes.

From a technical pov, It is possible, but not trivial to change this.

Something that could work was if f_modified checked if the models fits inside the space of the original model.

I'd love to, but it's against the rules it seems!

In all seriousness, but why draw the line at something so trivial.

edit:

Line should be drawn at cheating.

Easy yes, correct/logical? questionable...
I'm asking WHY it is forbidden/considered a cheat, but still nobody has gotten up with any valid arguments.

terife... so what if i used a shaft model that is 3 times as long as the original one. I would be able to see some players around the corners, that i wouldnt be able to see otherwise..

Therefor it is needed to verify that models are not modified.

What has seeing enemys around a corner to do with the lenght of the shaft model?

Is the length of the model even defined by the model itself, rather then the distance limit on the weapon?

well i'm assuming that when you fire, it will display the shaft model as reaching longer. But as you pointed out, that might not nes. be the case. Some devs. prolly knows.

But im pretty sure that if you made it wider instead, you would get the same effect im describing. Meaning you would see enemy activity from locations you are not supposed to see it.

I wouldnt mind if we had a few models to pick from in the menues of ezq (just like you can do for rockets/grenades/trails). But allowing any model is not good.

Willgurht:

Do you have any example where it would make any significant difference with longer shaft models? FTE has the size clamping feature anyway, so you can't do longer models there

Lets say i make a spiked shaft model. assuming it worked as i described. You would have a good guess of the firing-opponent's position when entering RA room on dm3 or going from water to quad on cmt4. Significant ? small differences add up. If in the right direction, sure why not.

Besides saying that different shaft-model doesnt affect your ability to hit opponents can be discussed along with different cross hairs effect on your sg aim. Im atleast sure I aim better with crosshair... But im sure a skilled player would be able to master the shotgun without a cross hair. Im also sure that the same skilled player would have masterd the shotgun faster, if he would have practiced with a crosshair. But isnt there some old thread on this topic we can dig up and reuse our arguments from back then (and if you changed your opinion, use the best ones from someone else).

One thing is using different .mdl, another thing is particle replacement, which is disallowed at the moment too. I'll send a note about this thread to the smackdown ruleset mailing list, that's like all I can do for you.

Mail sent to Vio, Phil, Dirtbox, Molgrum, Phrenic, Sassa (that's most up-to-date list of ppl responsible for rules in leagues, if there were any changes, please let me know)

Ok thnx man

This looks like no-go at the moment, because:
* Custom models allows you to have straight shaft and that's something that's been rejected in smackdown ruleset mailing list
* r_shaftalpha is no-go too, completely invisible shaft has been rejected
* Particle alternative allows you both straight shaft and invisible shaft.

Proposed solution:
* community picks a custom model that will be allowed in f_modified (and no other model will be allowed)
* community picks one particle-shaft-textures that will be allowed as the only allowed (and checked in f_modified too)
* r_shaftalpha will have a limitation (like 0.5 or something)
It's up to you (community) now. If you want to have changes in ezQuake 1.9, you need to act quick and get lots of positive supporting votes on what you will propose.

I would like that, make it 0.2 tho

Such a ridiculous argument, heard them all over the last 10 years..

Everyone single other aspect of QW has been tampered with..
Hud, textures, crosshairs, brightskins, shotgun scripts, etc, etc, etc

Shaft model does not make much difference, its just old players who don't want new ways as usual.