First read 'the forbidden topic':
http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2720

As a quake3cpm player, and as a quakeworld rookie, I was wondering why shaft is a forbidden topic in quakeworld.

All other shaft animations seem to be considered cheats, and even the implemented gl_lightning 1 detailed particle shaft seems to be considered a cheat by some people.

I wonder why this is, why is the quakeworld community so against different shaft animations, and why are models like this http://gfx.qwdrama.com/details/42/ considered a cheat?

I don't get the reasoning behind it, a cheat to me is,
Something that takes over a function the player should perform himself.
Using a tool, external program, or technique to gain an unfair advantage over the opponent.

But how does a different animation give you such advantage, or take over a function?

You could say that a straight shaft animation gives you an advantage, where as it's just less anoying really, not 'easier' nor does it give you uberaim magically.

Any decent player with straight shaft still wouldnt outaim any player that has been playing with the default shaft animation for a long time, it's all a matter of user preference and getting used to.

And with that said, what would you like to see in ezQuake 1.9?

We already have a alternative eye-candy particle system in ezQuake, wich can be used to spectate games and watch demos.

Straightshaft makes Quake looks weird and totally not Quakeish. Then I'm totally against this thing to become some sort of default.

Who said it would be some sort of default?

Terife: changing subject + adding some text to your post would be nice, otherwise we don't know what you want

Leave the shaft as it is now. Allow re-texturing, shaftlight and that damn fakeshaft but disallow new models. No shaftalpha thanks.

What is it ALWAYS with the new players coming in and instantly start suggesting changes?

I voted for alternate texture for particle shaft - current one is a bit out of place. But, if any custom bolt2.mdl should be allowed, it must be this one:

http://gfx.qwdrama.com/details/89/

OriOn have done awesome job, it isn't "cheaty" like striaghtshaft and look better than classic shaft.

I wouldn't mind any sort of change with shaft models / particles... but I can't find any "do what the hell you want"-option

I mind changing the models, because it makes it easier to shaft with a straight shaft. Why the hell would it be banned in the first place, and kept illegal for so long if not?

Also I find it rather annoying that none of the options in this poll say: Leave it the way it is.

if you want to keep it the way it is, don't chose for any of the options, see of it as a petition.

Besides that, it's not easier to hit with straight shaft, it's a case of getting used to and user preference, straight shaft is just less of an anoyance.

If I'd use straightshaft, I still wouldn't be able to outaim you.

Why is it that you have something against fakeshaft.

As for your question; because it doesnt make any sense.

New players checkt his game out, see that nearly everything can be modified, but when it comes to shaft everything is restricted, when asked about it people give weird arguments.

Besides that, nearly every game these days has got straight shaft; painkiller overdose quake3 warsow unreal tournament 3 even.
And it works fine, it's not cheaty, it's just fine.

so straight shaft is less of an annoyance, but dont make it easier to shaft? please...

I vote to unlock shaftalpha. My argument is the same as for fakeshaft: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1322

the-interceptor:

I don't see the problem if everyone has access to the straight shaft regardless client. Sure it changes they way things are, but are there no better arguments than that to defend the original shaft?
And please if you would dare to make an aimbot-analogy...

Please what?

I'd say that, if it's less of an anoyance, people would enjoy using it more... and will use it more, and because they use it more, they gain expirience with it faster, they get better at it faster, because it's less of an anoyance, not because it gives you magic aim.

why would i compare it to aimbots?

i find it a good enough reason to defend the original just because it is qw. its a strong weapon already as it is, why make it easier to master?

would u mind giving me a reason to change it?

I wouldn't;

It's less anoying, and distracting.

Many of the new players come from other games like quake3, ut(any), painkiller...

Wich all have straight shaft models, then they hear of the game called qw, and think it's really awesome,
they notice how almost everything is configurable, except for shaft...
Because the 'oldschool' players give half, false or just non-sense arguments about it being a cheat, while it is not.

It's a matter of user preference, again, a newb with straight shaft won't out-aim you with the current shaft model...

It will make the game look smoother, and thus, more apealing to newbies.

Also, about the 'it's fine as it is' argument, this is just ignorant, that you think it's fine doesnt mean the rest does, nor does it mean it can not be improved upon.

I have made my points, use the search tool. I've used fakeshaft in the previous life and currently I don't use it, I also found it easier to shaft because lagging bolt model doesn't distract you. It is A SKILL to ignore distractions while shafting/being fired at. Again, use the search and see why.


QW is NOT any of those games you know.

We've been around for 10 years and the skill requirement is the thing that differentiates QW from any other games, so let there be something to learn instead of taking shortcuts for glory.


I totally agree. During the years (especially after the introduction of fakeshaft) I've seen people's povdmm4 LGs go beyond 30% almost all the time (this wasn't the case between 2003-2006 when fakeshaft was not allowed so it's recent) and I find it more and more difficult to attack against shafted players even if they wouldn't be that great players/LGers. All this is because recent changes in the clients that allow fakeshaft and even higher fps than before and perhaps it's good or perhaps it isn't, but while allowing higher fps can improve your lg performance due to increased smoothness, there is only so much you can improve your lg. So while you have gotten the best possible lg there is, you can't do any better. Now allowing people to use fakeshaft or linebolt can get the difference smaller because they can gain from it while you can't.

And in the end LG in QW is really a skill weapon like the RL. It is really powerful in right hands and doesn't become unusable before ping gets above 51ms. In all the other games you conveniently mentioned LG like weapons are totally useless at higher pings, take CPMA for example.

You are ignorant to say this:

And in the end LG in QW is really a skill weapon like the RL. It is really powerful in right hands and doesn't become unusable before ping gets above 51ms. In all the other games you conveniently mentioned LG like weapons are totally useless at higher pings, take CPMA for example.

have you ever seen vamp1re play? he get's shaft percentages of 40% on 150 ping.

Not because he got straightshaft, not because or truelightning, but simply because he is a skilled player.

Besides, other games take a lot of skill to master too...

About your comment, perhaps peoples LG got better because connections improved, hardware improved and well, players improved after all those years?


Haha, oh wow, so it IS a skill to ignore distractions, but it isnt a skill to aim without being distracted?

If I'd play without fakeshaft, my aim would improve, if I'd play WITH fakeshaft my aim would improve faster because it would just be less of an anoyance to use shaft, it would actually be fun!

You are the one being the ignorant here. Why not try to improve yourself for a year or two and then recheck things? Trying to come and make changes as soon as you get in to the game.

40% at 150ms ping? Not very likely unless you are REALLY picky about when to use lg or not. Yes, I follow CPMA games.


You really need to re-read what I posted. Didn't I provide you with the timeline? Pings have been around 25ms in qw for the past 8 years, a ping that is really good for gaming.


Wanna have fun? Challenge interceptor for some povdmm4 and you'll see what the lg skill can be. Heck, why stop there, try some other maps too.

I am improving myself, the animation anoys me none the less.


It HAS happened, and I have allready said that, why say it's not very likely?
If you'd follow CPM games you'd allready know that.

You're talking as if everyone had 25 ping in qw for the past 8 years, where as it depends on server location, connection and a lot of other things.

I allready know what lg skill can be, from CPM
But ok, I just might do so.

PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE NOT COMPARING QUAKEWORLD WITH THIS BUNCH OF CRAP!!!!

--//--

I think people in this thread should stop comparing fakeshaft with straightshaft! Fakeshaft is the correction of a "bug", unless you think Carmack intended to make the shaft beam dance around the screen. Straightshaft is not a correction of a bug, you'll be just changing the way it was meant to be, unless you belive Carmack was not able to draw a straight line back in 1996!

Games like ut and wsw have straight shaft because their shafts are NOT qw thunderbolt. Link gun and laser gun both don't shoot electricity. First Q3 arena shaft was actually more like lightning, less like a beam, they changed it in patches, and arqn added alternate shaft gfx in his MOD. Keep in mind that in wsw and ut you can't change look of shaft! (well you can change color of it in wsw but that doesn't make real difference).

I don't see reason why something that shoot electricity/lightning should be changed in to something that shoot straight beam...
I don't know on what planet you live, but on earth when there's thunderstorm lightnings hit the ground like that:

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ezQ already have particle shaft feature, but it would be good to change this effect in to something more similiar to normal shaft in terms of blocking both player and enemy view, and lock these settings, because it's too easy to have really thin shaft right now.

Then the question comes up which bugs we should actually fix and which ones to not fix. When you think about it, most of the good stuff in Quake are...bugs.

And who the fuck gives a damn about the players coming from q3 or ut or painkiller? Learn how to use it properly in qw, that's all there is to it. Besides, qw is pretty much easy to start and configure by now (which is good), but let's not make it easier to play just for the sake of those so-called q3/ut/painkiller players, that are willing to start qw only to drop it after 2 weeks.

1º. Correcting things that most of the players belive will make the game better;
2º. Do not making the game easier;
3º. Do not removing the original characteristics of the game without a REALLY good reason + item 1.

The shaft is straight. Thats why its called a shaft.

It might be that if players were to use a straight shaft, maps like dm4/dm6/dm3 would become too shaft dominated, but here's a lame suggestion: Allow straight shaft, keep the shaft kickback, lower the shaft damage a little. (I know these are alot of changes, and I'm not saying that they are necessarily good or even plausible to take immediate effect, I just think a discussion could be healthy)

As I said (here or somewhere else), I myself wouldn't care that much if the model is allowed, BUT given that it doesn't have such a huge impact that it becomes the overdominant weapon. If that's the argument for disallowing straight shaft, how about allowing other models/particles that are non-straight?

Even though, if the skill is simply to avoid annoyances, wouldn't a straight shaft simply mean that the "skill stair steps" gets flattened out a little (for the better or worse, can of course be discussed)?

That is taking it too far . Also what kind of ridiculous poll is this? Leaving out one of the most important answers suggests that you are afraid it would dominate the poll.

Shaft damage should not be changed please.
I've tried straight shaft and I can't say it was better in any way.

Please don't make it a Q3-shaft, because it just sucks ass.

"Can someone plz tell me why ppl are trying to make qw something that it isnt?" or "There is nothing wrong with the shaftmodel the way it is." Someone might say or think...

But then again, why are we afraid of change? The game is over 10 years old now, and one thing that i love about this game (and gives me a reason to still play it) is that it never stops changing:

I highly doubt that i still would play qw if it looked the same way as it 10 years ago. The "change" that comes with new clients and mods keeps this game alive, lets not forget that.