if we're going there

the bottom of the armor doesn't seem very faithful either

but it still looks awesome

ah, so it seems, thanks, made it about 20% larger, looks better now

ye the front should go more rainbow-shaped if you know what I mean ;D

you mean like this?

yeah exactly

ye! let's see if it looks better.. if not the current model is fine by me

there, bigger hole for the head, a small bend on the bottom part of the model, and the = thingies on the chest are a bit higher
also the shoulder things are tilted a bit more... like this:

the barely visible yellow line shows how it used to look like.

Witch is better...
http://www.kolumbus.fi/ruohis/temp/more_screws.jpg <- The old one
or this (more faithufl) one:

Will change the details, this is just something i quickly edited to illustrate my idea

For comparison the originals:

I prefer the first one, but don't mind to have both!

shouldn't the faithful one have a red and gray cord? i like the faithful one since it's not done yet

faithful is good

Cell boxes: Does it make more sense to have one wire black and one wire red, like how it is for car batteries? Also, maybe have the wires bend in differenet ways on the sides of the cell? Also remember small cell box (6 cells) is grey, big cell box (12 cells) is green.

Armor: looking great. Do you think it's a good idea to add a very subtle six-pack to the model itself? Also, maybe lower the hole for the head a little bit, it's a bit high right now I think. And the shoulder caps look a bit weird.. perhaps they are too fluted?

Anyway just some constructive criticism Love the work so far!

add more detail to the model?
quake polygon and vertice limit is 2048, the armor is 1944 polygons at the moment
oh, and moved the head hole down a notch...

yeah well the battery box is only an idea witch i got when viewing moon[drunk]s 24bit faithfull skins
i'll work on the basic shape a bit more and then see what it will look like

Ruohis, aren't you using .md3? I thought .md3 allowed for more polygons for quake? (btw I will have ezquake/fte validate new models hopefully, shhhh! hehe)

hmm, so it seems, and tested it with a neraly 3k poly model... at least it works in ezquake, and the maximum poly allowed to export (probably md3 limit) is 4096 polygons...
but still, why use too much when you don't have to

Well, atleast you don't have to limit your work I'd like the new standard for Quake to be .md3's so modellers won't feel constricted.

well the 4096 polygon md3 limit is really good, cause i'm not _that_ good at low polygon character modelling, i always make the models too detailed, so i'll do a bit more high polygon instead, first of i'm lazy so i already copypasted my armor, removed the insed and other useless polygons... now to create arms and legs to it

I would not exceed 2048 for items...

tbh I would suggest maxs of 1280 for items and 2048 for a player model

its fine to model at hi-poly but just use the built in editor tools to reduce polycount before exporting

not exeed 2048 even for the player model... guess i'll throw this in the bin then:


*evil grin*

and yes, i'we been trying to keep it as low as possible and still have it as high as possible, for itmes that is, only a few items at the moment that are close to 2000, the rest are around 1000 polys...

/* Edit

almost forgot to post the renderings on the new battery models i was talking about earlier...
http://www.kolumbus.fi/ruohis/temp/new_batt.jpg

I like the left once better. That blue color aint my favourite.

About the shoulders. I think they are to much. Looks like a vaccumcleaner or the end of a hose. I would rather have it go down and out in a more solid way. Perhaps just end where the first big line is. So that its about 45 in angle from the body. That perhaps looks more like shoulder pads, and less like a t-shirt (in length that is).

Btw, what do you do for a living?

Amazing work Ruohis! And you whip thoose models up faster than lightning. Keep up the good work!

player model critique

the arms look messed up, the biceps should be higher up
shoulder pads are too small (if you're gonna keep that shape) they should be bigger to fit those huge arms
legs are too long
knees are too high up
axe looks more like a axe made of stone than steel (it's too rugged)
the belt is too round
armor should have more pronounced six pack (or is it a two pack on the faithful one? ;P)
the faithful model has some sort of kevlar vest below the armor (?)

keep up the good work and don't get demoralized by my critique (my personal opinions), you're doing awesomely good!

To help you guys in the "debug" of the new model!

ruohis you rule!

What about concentrating on the ammo boxes and releasing them first. THEN concentrate on the player model. I was hoping for the ammo boxes the last weekend. *sniff*

The thing is, as long as there are only a few clients (if any?) that can actually paint md3 player models in different top- and bottomcolors, they are probably of less use than other model-replacements.

ezquake and fte can use md3 models, that's 2 out of 3 engines (fuhquake can't)

amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vegetous, I dont mean to sound negative but why compare his player model to the skin, wouldn't it be smarter to compare vs ingame shot of default quake player mdl or at least a shot of the model in an editor. the skins aspect are all messed up, player doesnt look like that in game, its not a fair comparison.

to ruohis, all of your modelling is really exciting (thank you thank you thank you) and i realize this player model is just a beginning, and i know you are going for accurate recreation of the original, but i think many ppl would agree with me that the following is their favorite player model ever and would love to use it------->

maybe something to keep in mind as u model, the dimensions and shape are just perfect on this guy. unfortunately if u didnt know the creator (neogenisis i think) never left this model in anyones hands that im aware of , so its lost. but i know u could do a great job to re-create something similar, or use ideas from it to encoporate it into yours.

keep it up buddy!!!!!!!!!

just one more thought: its also a little insane to go for 100% faithful on the player model. looking at the model itself, the original is such a big lego block, one that we have all come to know and love, but it just wouldnt make sense on a remodel with all the resources you have now. It is obviously that you realize this and anyone would, but at the same time, when you are trying to re-create the model based off the skin/model of the old one, the dimensions and aspects just aren't going to match up because you are changing the shape of the person. so what i am trying to say is that maybe not go %100 faithful for the shape and stuff ( but details such as on the armor yes keep the same), otherwise the dudes gonna look all out of whack, like right now, he has no midsection, no bulk.

i might also warn against making him look "too" rounded and perfect. that would be by main critisism with the armor, its not bulky enough, it sort of has a 'petite' feel to it, when instead i would like to see more of the chiselled out, defined, batman feel.

anyway, im sure weve all already thought of/heard this 100 times over =) have fun

From what i gather Ruohis is going for 'faithful' models first and foremost, after that who knows. Everyones client is different to some degree, there'll never be a universal version of quake except in respect of gameplay, I probably spend as much time tinkering with the eyecandy as i do playing

I think everyone would agree that Ruohis we're glad your back

Ok, they can actually render them, but as you might know one has to use gl_nocolors 1 to make md3 player models work. This in fact makes top- and bottomcolor assignments useless. So md3 player models are useless for people relying on different top- and bottomcolors. As i am currently working on my QW LAN Installer for retired players i want to be as faithful as possible, so i don't include any team- or enemyskins but a config that has different team- and enemycolors (red vs. yellow).

Actually i believe creating a really good player model is hard work (think of all the animations). Hasn't Ruohis said that he didn't figure out how to create md3 animations yet? So my advice is to complete the really nice md3 ammo boxes first and then concentrate on the player model. :-)

Yes, i'm a bit egoistic here. (sorry) The LAN i am planning the installer for is in 2 1/2 weeks and i am really looking forward to include those models making them retired players say "wow, this is REALLY qw?". And i doubt there will be an ezQuake with working 24bit texture player-skin and color-changing support ready by then. ;-)

Someone else was saying something similar like "finnish the goddamn ammoboxes already".
Anyway, I'we figured out how to animate md3, so thats no problem. neither is animating, but setting up the animation skeleton for the model so that it works perfectly... well.. that's a whole different thing.. and THAT takes time.

So, ammboxes... let me show you a image to illustrate why the delay:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/ruohis/temp/drunk_texture.jpg
the above model has parts of a texture moon[drunk] made as an example when i asked if he can help me with texturing.
the model below has my old suckass texture...
so, i guess i don't have to explain twice why i rather wait to release with better texture than release now. and the ammoboxes curently look too much like monkeyrats due to texturing... and i don't want that...

as for the player model
http://www.kolumbus.fi/ruohis/temp/q_player.jpg

and whoever posted with "love_ruohis"... daaaamn! don't go there scary shit...

and no more complaining about release dates, against all believes i have other things to do besides model, i'm just fast at what i do when i do it...