The very common question this time.

IMO the mappool currently is too limited and too boring. How can a scene survive if players only play few maps during 12 or so years?

I'm personally so sick and tired on playing dm4, dm2 or aero on every damn game there is even if there are other great maps available. When suggesting new maps people usually say "I can't play that map so I won't play it" or "This is stupid map even if I never played this" or "No time to learn new maps" or whatever the excuse might be.

I'm not saying shitty maps should be played, but really, there are so many really good alternative maps around that should get more attention. Luckily there are people who are willing to play other maps or even run "kenya" tournaments, but I don't think that's quite enough. A good map or two in the mappool wouldn't hurt, would it?

IMHO, new maps should be added and preferably old ones removed. I used to hate dm4 (still don't like it but I'm slowing learning to tolerate it). I'm fairly sure that everyone is aware of my opinions regarding history now, but as a fairly new player to QW I can't understand how it will survive, let alone grow.

There were some good posts in another thread and I do agree that a map pool should have maps that all play differently - I like ztndm3 - but 5 spawnrape maps would be a little boring ;-)

I'm sure there are maps about that are not as flawed as dm4 (that damn MH room ;-)).

More than 5 maps would be hard for new players to learn (5 is hard enough ;-)).

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I have never understood the cry for maps. I think playing the same map for 12 years bothers me about as much as playing on the same field for 100 years bothers football players. That's for the "playing the same maps is boring" -argument. Now if the map is just plain bad like e1m2, I wouldn't mind switching it to a better one. For me playing random ffa in an unknown map is more boring than playing high quality teamplay in a well known map. It takes a long time time to get from the former to the latter and the more maps we use the longer it takes. I vote no for more maps, but can consider switching a map.

That was probably the worst comparison this year.

When compared to other games, QW can be really boring. Not only does it have small mappool, everyone knows everybody and their playstyle so nothing really comes as a surprise. The more maps there is the more surprising/interesting things can become. Now it's only a routine and only very few players make surprising moves (hello Reppie, Milton) so if there was a chance on getting one or two new maps, who knows what kind of tactics and moves people would develop.

No, QW is not like any other game out there, really, but does it have to mean we have to waste great engine for nothing new and innovative?

Well i wish we would hear some more opinions on maps like vdm3v3, lundm1, skull, doomed etc.

I (and I think many other players) would gladly play new maps, if it was known in advance that a new map will be in official mappools. I can't forget the 2on2 tournament where one of the admins silently included a map he liked into rules and many people didn't know about it. God I was so disgusted. But if we all had enough time to practice one or two new maps at least for a month, why not.
Until pro-dm2 and pro-ztndm3 are made (hey don't flame me, ztn is my homemap you know), these two could be replaced by some other two wisely chosen, revised and tested maps.
But someone has to choose these one or two "new best" maps and a tournament has to follow month or two after this.

For me, I would love to see Skull added - the ramps and layout give so many possiblities (in my imagination, not my skill level ;-)) so I'm sure the players with 1337 movement skills would amaze.

Those "pro" maps are an hallucination in my opinion. Look at dm2, dm4, dm6, those maps are far from being "pro" and still the "pros" love them. It's acclimatisation and training that matter the most.

I want Qurnel's Hatebreeder (hate.bsp)! It's such a great map.

Err... this poll is seriously lacking the option "No - it's fine as it is."

No it's not. It's included in the option 2.

?:\

What if you don't think TB3/TB5 is too much?

Compromise!

This is a sensitive issue.

New, good and widely accepted 4on4 maps don't exist. The last attempt we had was with the CMT maps and the CMT tournament, which success was so-so. Plus, after the tournament, the maps were even more criticised by some ppl, altough some clans choose one of them (cmt3 or 4) as their home map, for various reasons.
What im trying to say is that, it doesnt matter if we increase the map pool if we keep tb3 in it. Because most clans won't choose the new ones. UNLESS: the league forces the clans to play the deciders in the new ones. This could work like this:

2 map pools, a) tb3, b) other 3, Total 6 maps
tb3: dm2 dm3 e1m2
other: e2m2tdm cmt4 cmt3 (this is an example! )

the clan who gets to choose 1st map forces the other clan to chose a map from the same map pool. If a decider is needed, both clans should drop a map from the other map pool, playing the remaining one. A example:
Clan 1 - dm2
Clan 2 - dm3
1-1
clans cant play the decider on tb3. each clan drops a map from 2nd map pool (other maps)
clan 1 drops e2m2tdm
clan 2 drops cmt4
decider will be played on cmt3

and thats it. same thing if clan 1 chooses cmt3 for example, clan 2 must choose between cmt4 and e2m2tdm. if decider is needed, then choose from tb3.

Its just an idea. its worth what its worth...


Other option is another CMT. which isnt the best one imo.

Regarding 1on1, i think its time to make some decisions. noone dies if a duel tournament "bans" tb3 for ONE season, and allows only ztn/aero/suggestion1/suggestion2/suggestion3.
Of the candidates is clearly v3dm3, which was tested and finetuned in the kenya tournaments and its a good 1on1 map. I WOULDN'T choose more semi-played maps (skull...) because simply some ppl plays very well in them and could ruin the tournament, spoiling the fun for some. Besides, such maps already had a chance to shine in the past, without success.


hugs!

no no no, no forcing of the cmt maps, no no! the one nqr (or eql?) used last season (or the one before it?) with a larger map pool for those who wanted to play extra maps was excellent - and if i remember right - it was implemented because of my suggestion!

it was of course a huge failure for people wanting to see more maps, but what does that really tell you? it tells you most people do not want the change (or the extra maps were shit), and you should never force the majority to play like you want just because you individually feel it would be refreshing, nice, more interesting or whatever.

and regarding to that 1on1 stuff, it wouldn't kill anyone to stop arranging 1on1 tournaments all together? or it wouldn't kill anyone if aero and ztndm3 were to banned from future tournaments? it wouldn't kill you if most people won't care about new maps?

I basically stopped playing qw when the map pools got too limited.

mipa: "forcing". something's gotta be done, or else everyone will play the same maps all over again. U mention nqr. i checked the map stats at nqr11:
cmt3 got played once
cmt4 played 10 times
midcit played 3 (?) times
e2m2tdm 2 times

everyone knows ppl are lazy. ppl need motivation to learn new maps. the solution i proposed, 2 map pools instead of one, can be imho interesting and flexible. which maps contain each map pool, its up for the admins to decide. if admins decide: pool 1: dm2 dm3 cmt4 and pool 2: cmt3 e1m2 (insert map here); clans can play tb3 only if they want

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you don't seem to realize the possibility that "everyone" likes playing the plain old maps which they know? and you want to force them to play new maps only because you feel bored with the big three/five?

I want e3m7 back

It seems that many new players are already familar with maps from other games (ie q3ers know aero). If maps from other games were included in map pools, it is more likely that new players would stick around.