I've got all of those too, not special there, same for all I guess then?

That's the 2000+ lines of text that show up in priv as soon as you enter IRC as a Quakeworld tournament administrator.

OT: there is a difference between negative feedback and flaming. I think at most times qw-admins can tell the difference, but sometimes it is harder.

I also found it a bit odd that when a seasoned player like blAze has some valid points, Itsinen (One of the best/most experienced admins) mentions some flaming. Because i didnt see any/much in this thread. Or maybe im just misinterpreting the smiley

Or the flaming goes on in IRC priv as you said.

Obviously as an league admin it is hard to argue with arguments like OMG-POVCMT4?!?!!, KENYAWALK :LOL!!!! or zzzdm2zzzz

But i think some good points have been made in this thread. To split the client compile-time into two different executables is not the way to go IMO. If the important thing in competitive-qw is that players have similar/equal settings, it can be achieved with rulesets. Having another executable solves nothing.

I'm not convinced about the pro-client idea either, but i do think that a tournament (not league, that's the wrong word imo) like this would do good if executed properly. The current leagues just don't feel exclusive enough to play in and people just go idle and think "oh well, we'll have a shot at that league win in another two months".

Itsinen you mentioned money above. I know people would be against a Tournament that involved money.
But if there was Prize money hypotetically , would that attract in players to play and compete more and if so how much of a prize would really draw attention and interest for a tournament. Say if there was a pot of 500 Euro for a Div 1/Elite 4on4 tourney each season do people reckon it would generate interest.

May work in lower divs, but in div1 the problem is that there simply isn't any players anywhere. At least in Finland. You can't recruit people that don't exist.

Significant money prizes might motivate people to leave their non playing teams at least temporarily and play to win though.

I'm inclined to agree with blAze.... WO or minus points for not playing isn't really that big a motivation, I mean similar things have been tried before, even rules about removing inactive clans (e.g. if they haven't played X games after Y weeks). The fact is, if clans are enjoying their Quake and highly motivated, they will get most of their games played. The carrot is always more effective than the stick, if the stick is held by some guy living hundreds or thousands of miles away

Another factor to consider is that if you force clans to play on a tight schedule you sometimes get a lower quality of game, if one side has to play with B-lineup. As good as it sounds for activity, the spectators hate that kind of thing - I've seen this first hand from time spent as a Smackdown (another so-called "elite" league) admin. And that can actually damage the motivation/morale of some clans if they feel that the league isn't flexible enough.

The strange thing is my attitude is somewhat different now than it used to be I guess one issue with QW is that because the game is so old, a lot of the players don't actually have the same amount of time as they used to when they were a student or whatever. I used to play QW 5-7 days a week but I have more commitments nowadays so even if I started playing 4on4 again I doubt I could guarentee to be free on days X, Y and Z nearly every week. Well, maybe if there was money at stake and I felt like I had a chance of winning it!

So any more on this idea ?
After the Div 1 results this season of EQL, Its seems now that something has to change if 4on4 is to survive. QW has always been declining but the past 18 months have seen quite a drop off in 4on4 activity. There is less incentive and notivation for Div 1 players as there are not enough Div 1 clans playing. Without a decent Div 1 division all the other leagus have nothing to aspire to or even enjoy watching. If Div 1 falls away then the other divs will quickly follow and once we go down that road there will be no return. Can anything be done or do we let it fade out gracefully now?

The only think I can see as turning it around now is to have a decent prize money for one big Elite 4on4 tournament a year.
This might motivte old clans and players and would attract in new players. So where would the money come from?

Well for starters it would depened on what one would consider decent prize money . I'm sure if we had a target then there would be contrubuters amongst the commun ity who would come up with prize money. I am not financially well off but I would contribute €50-100 for starters if something like this could get off the ground.

Or is there even enough interest any more ?

I agree with this and would also consider contributing for one massive tournament. Some people might say that always having a 4on4 tournament running is good for the activity, but i'm not so sure. In fact i think making tournaments feel more exclusive, by not hosting 999999 tournaments a year and perhaps offering some prize money, is a key factor for making Quakeworld competitive again. I'm not sure through which organisation this would be done though, i feel that's something that is lacking in QW atm. (people should feel free to contact me if they're interested in starting something)

I must say that i would rather practice for ~4-6 group games + playoff in one big tournament, than treating league games (EQL) as practice games because the whole 4on4 scene is kinda idle.

I guess i contribute to the degeneration of QW4on4 as i'm not in a clan and haven't played in any tournament for a very long time now, i'm just not tempted to do so in the current state of the 4on4 scene and its league(s).

Yep, one money tournament per year might work nicely. I mean it seems that certain people are even willing to drag their asses on lans if there is money involved. It should also be kept relatively short so people who are undecided don't feel it takes too much of their time. The problem here is ofc the money. Since it'd be divided to 4-5 players minimum, you'd need quite a sum to keep it interesting for individuals.

How about some creating a tourney with some mix teams out of like 6-8 div1-2 clans, trying to make them as equal as possible?

That could be pretty fun imo and I'm pretty sure that could make most players improve somehow (exception: Milton).

yeah a draft league could be fun, but i think we've talked about that before?