If it's something you are not satisfied with regarding the new rules (etc) stated for EQL9, please add your comment here.

If you're not satisfied with something, then please also write a suggestion for solution.

There is no cmt4 and cmt3.

solution: add the maps to the list. At least to silver and bronze divisions.

A2K EQL8:
CMT3 2 plays, 2 wins
CMT4 9 plays, 9 wins

I can see your point...

not including division winner naim (axe-men), our score on tb3 was 7-1.

So what it says is that one or both teams could have done fine in a higher division.

Why should just the lower divs have the crappy kenyamaps?


Imo the EQL admins should add the cmt aka crappy kenyamaps.
But it should only be played if both teams agreed on it.
So if Team TB3Lovahz play against Team Kenya and Team Kenya choose to CMTwhatever to thier map and Team TB3Lovahz agree to play that shitty map, they just do it. And if Team TB3Lovahz don't agree they play a TB3 map.

Just that simple!

Sorry my bad english :}}

why not just simply allow all quakemaps that are original? e1m5 would be fun and perhaps even some e4 maps =)
how it used to be and there was no fuss about it..

Well i dont think playing random kenya maps is fun.

But playing a set of 5 or 7 maps where one map is rotated (voted) in and out every season.
Perhaps with some rule that if voted in, the map will stay for atleast 2 seasons.

I dont mind if cmt3 or cmt4 is not among these. Even tho they are decent maps just given the chance.



I doubt a league such as this would improve our chances of seeing dag making a comeback. But in the long run I think it is what is needed.

When discussing kenya maps it's the same maps over and over again (i.e. CMT3/4, ExMy and perhaps ukcldm2 every now and then), are there really no better custom maps out there? CMT3/4 are esthetically pleasing but a bore to play, while ukcldm2 is both ugly and boring to play. Aren't there any suitable baldmX maps out there? xD

I know a map, dunno if you can find it at every server. But on wargamez you can play a map called "DM3again". It is a remake of DM3.
You don't need to play it, you know the map anyway.
It would be nice!

DM3again = less kenya = less shit

it's because most 'serious' TDM and duel players only know TBx maps, maybe the kenyas you mentioned. ffa players or less serious players could give better advice about some nice kenya maps but then ffa is 'noob' anyway or that's what some ppl think.

I can understand the reasons why Willgurht is unhappy with the map-pool. Having TB3 always sucks for those who enjoy a variety in maps rather than playing the same 3 maps for 12 years. But what can you do; History, dozens of polls and discussions have shown that the majority of today's scene simply favours TB3. And when running a league, trying to please as many people as possible is just common sense.
Maybe an alternative (extended map pool/regular map pool) like in NQR11 could soften the fall for clans like A2K.

EQL9 aside, what one could also do: Make inquiries (separate thread) how many clans would be interested in playing in a custom map league. If you can gather enough people/clans, a nice custom map league would be nice for a change. QW hasn't had one of those for ages, and depending on the amount of people that are interested, you could either turn it into a ladder based system or have divisions.

Im not really that fond of a custom map league. In the past that would mean playing games on maps no one hardly knows and the quality of team play and skill is down to the level of ffa.

My suggestion a few posts up is something else.

I would even go as far and say that decider could be tb3. I'm no tb3 hater, they are all good maps.

I would like to see strafe script allowed and ruleset smackdown requirement ditched.

No need to explain first one, but to remove ruleset smackdown requirement, howcome?

Why not? Does ruleset default include something that there is an actual and consistent reason to ban? And if yes, at least create a new ruleset that includes only that feature. And since my mouse buttons only work with 2.0 branch of ezQuake and in_raw_allbuttons 1, I'd of course want to see it allowed too, because otherwise I can't play.

That must mean my mousebuttons wont work in earlier versions either

There are a lot of things ruleset smackdown prevents? triggers, timers, transparent water, fps-settings, etc etc..

Removing that one seems like a really stupid mistake afaik

U sure? The manual doesn't mention anything about transparent water and servers limit server side fps to 77 anyway so the ruleset has no additional value here.
http://ezquake.sourceforge.net/docs/?security#smackdown Triggers were never a big deal and for timers there's probably external programs if you want to use one.

On the other hand very nice features like cl_rollalpha, r_shaftalpha and backpack skinning are banned.

what have i missed regarding the strafe scripts?

Someone first explain what are strafe scripts to a complete "n00b" like me?

About custom maps, considering how maxed out the efficiency has become of div1-2 clans in the TB3 maps, it would be a good thing to allow other maps for team games. Atleast on those maps some progress can be made regarding strategy, etc., and perhaps lets new players still give a chance I don't really see the problem either, just allow the possibility of playing a list of maps (including other id & custom maps) , but only if both clans playing agree upon these maps, eg. if one clan only wants TB3, then TB3 will be played. This way, atleast in the lower divisions, you will see some other maps being played.

Good other id & custom maps imho so far: E2M2, E3M6, E3M7, E1M3 (perhaps), CMT4

I think to "force" new maps into the pool is the wrong approach. A better one would be to agree on a fourth map for the pool. To play this map in a higher div both teams have to agree on it. In the lowest div you can pick it just like a normal map. It's a good thing to make this difference. By this we would assure that the new map wont fuck up and high div games where to win or to lose really matters. In lower divs (I am talking about really low ones) players are not so experienced with tactics on the already played maps anyway. So if a clan takes time to practice this map it will surely pay off, but it is not that they will rape everybody because of it.

Generally I think a new map needs time to "grow" into the map pool. You can't say after 12 years e1m2 out map xxx in. (oh how I hate e1m2). If you introduce this map to lower divs they will play it. With the time those players will become better and maybe promote one div. So the map will be played in the 2 lowest divs, it will be more often played in mixes and so on. The important thing is to pick one map and stay with it for at least 2 or 3 seasons.

The change has to go from the bottom to the top. Yes we can!

The problem isn't that the maps are poor. The problem is that qw players are conservative and/or don't want to learn or play new maps.

"Kenya", the word used to describe non-standard maps, is used as an insult. That says all you need to know.

Edit: I say "new maps", but they've been used in leagues for years.

cmt3 I'm all in for, but cmt4 is crap, it's like an ffa-map.. tb3 is better in the end anyway

I know that the admins is very clever and don't gonna add some random kenya to the map pool.
But IF, WHY should higher divs have the big honor to choose if we lowdivs won't?

Because no one cares about shitty players, and people can force this kenya-loving attitude to them without anyone caring or making a fuss.

I personally hate learning new maps, and this attitude of forcing them down peoples throats is just plain wrong. I would much prefer that people promote the map, try to arouse peoples interest in it, make it seem like a good map instead of just putting it on the rules and call tb3 boring and whatever

blAze, regarding cl_rollalpha and r_shaftalpha....

r_shaftalpha, ok this isnt that big a deal, as you can change the skin of the of the shaft model anyways.
cl_rollalpha, however does really give you an advantage, I know a lot of players use rollangle when shafting, but they have to live with their own view rolling.

Regarding other limitations in the smackdown ruleset, I find these needed:
TCL
All custom cam
timerefresh
noshadows
packet command
Custom textures for eyes and backpack models

I see no reason to allow these, as their only use would be for cheating. cl_rollalpha however could be discussed.

Regarding forced use of clients
The reason why we decided to only allow newest stable of ezQuake and FTE is to make the f_checks easier, as you now only need to do one check.
If there are people who for one reason or another can't play with current stable of either of these two clients, we can make an exception. If this shows to be a large amount of people, the rules of course needs to be changed. However I do not think it is a big problem.

I've only heard soma having issues with this due to his pc being from the last century, and now you.
We don't enforce rules to piss of people. We try to follow the wishes of the majority.

I explained it already in my post why low divs and not high divs. Additionally, why should people who start playing qw and are pretty unexperienced with the maps have to play 12 year old maps who are designed for a total different gameplay (e1m2 not even for deathmatch), when there are maps that fit modern gameplay better. I know the chance of introducing a new map is pretty slim. You want new players in QW to let the community grow. You cant expect them to come to QW and then shut up. New people will bring in new demands and new ideas. Oldschoolers are used to play TB3 and shouldnt be forced to change their habbits, but new players should have the possibility to test something new.

I personally dont really care about the maps, since I am a total noob in 4on4 and will get owned on every map. I just dislike the "it was always like this" attitude. Changing something doesnt mean necessarily that it becomes worse.


btw. I dont talk about a random map. The map should be tested and discussed by the community.

One has to remember that tb3 has not always been the standard.

Most of the uk-leagues used a various range of maps both custom and episode maps (usually excluding the really not suitable episode maps like e1m7/e1m8 etc..).

Why is it important that people have to live with their own view rolling? Normally I use rollalpha to stop it so yes it's a bit annoying to play without it.


You are allowed to use fullbright skins for players, rockets, grenades, armors, weapons but not backpacks? That does not make sense.

There however was a reason it became a standard. Back in the days winning a match came down to who was able to rape the opponent most in their home map. e3m7 with no team damage settings did work nicely though...

I guess that since you only highlight this out of all the limitations, you agree on the rest?

The difference between rockets, grenade, armor and weapon skins are that you know where these items are, a backpack could be hidden in a shadow somewhere, in the water, or next to a health pack. If you were allowed to have yellow backpack skins, it would be quite too easy to see them.

Regarding player skins that somehow became standard.
Everything can become standard, if enough people agree it should, it has always been the players who decided on the rules in the end.

The rollalpha thing is cool, i use it myself, but i guess it's banned as the majority see it as cheating.