I was just speccing a mix game and there was short discussion about what map should be played next. The players decieded to stick with dm3, because dm2 isnt suitable for mix. (they said) So I was wondering, what makes a good 4on4 map for you?
The TB3 maps are pretty different.

You have DM2, a pretty small and simple map (layout wise), with a lot of items (2 MHs, 2RAs, 2YAs, 2RLs), but only 1 powerup (Quad) and no LG. I am no 4on4 expert, but from what I understand the gameplay or tactics are simple, due to the very important water area, if you block it and you keept control of lower RL you can lock the map. There are probably more elaborate tactics, but I think this is roughly the basics.

DM3: Rather big map witch a complicated layout, which on the one hand side has all 3 powerups, but on the other has only few other items to control (RL, LG which is practically in the same place, 1 RA, 1 YA and 2 MHs)

And last but not least E1M2: Complexity and size wise between DM2 and DM3 (not really sure about that). 1 Powerup (Quad) only 1YA and 1GA, 1RL, 1MH and really little ammo and health on the map.


Sorry for this useless sum up.

Anyway

What would be your ideal 4on4 map? lot of items, all weapons (maybe multiple times?) all powerups, large and complex layout? medium size or little. cant you stand a specific powerup? (ring for example) do you like the more onslaught playstyle of DM2 due to its size, and general layout, or do you prefer a map with a few, but really important items/armor to control.

I guess you got the idea what I mean.

CMT4 is probably one of the better mix 4on4 maps. Id play conciderably more 4on4 if this was a map people played in mix. DM2 for mix is just too easy to control / too hard to takeover with the usual mix team play.

I like all the maps with one exception to dm3 got a hate love relationship with that map. I would like to see cmt4 be played more often(love the hazzel to get pent push the button ;> and to be apart of upcoming leagues even cmt3.

IF i had to play a new map i would like a map without pent and lg. counting tb3 we only have one pent/lg map but since a lot of ppl say we have tb5 we already have 3 pent/lg maps.

It would be nice to see a map which requires some teamplay when it comes to opening something, like a door, in order to get somewhere (much like the cmt4 pent which is actually a kinda fun feature of an otherwise boring map)

Use these items:
Armors: 1RA, 1YA, 2GA
MEGA: 2
RL: 2
GL: 2
SNG: 1
SSG: 2
QUAD: 1
RING: 1
distribute ammo and healthboxes in a suiting way

THEN, make up some nice way so that teams must work together to get to the QUAD and perhaps 1 of the other important items but not the rls since they should be relatively open and more up for grabs. Also, dont use too much lava or oceans of water to swim through/hide in.

Make enough spawns so that players dont have to telefrag each other in the start like on dm3 and dont put spawnpoints in chokepoints, ppl must be able to walk by them not be forced to walk over them like on e2m2tdm which is telefrag heaven since the spawnpoints are placed in narrow spots and also not visible by some sort of plate on the ground.

anyway, thats a start

I agree with Rikoll that cmt4 is a great mixmap. The pent isn't ideal for mix team communication, but the ra, lg, mega and quad placement in that terrifying water area means that one man can easily turn the map over.

Of course, what makes it a good mix map is the same thing that makes it a less than ideal competitive map. I'd love to see it replaced by CMT1B. It was pretty popular in a past league and makes for a much more solid teamplay-based map.

I don't think more maps should be without pent and lg, especially if cells are limited; We already have two maps like that. Putting too many cells on a map makes for some pretty boring shaftfests, but, if you limit them, and place them strategically, then you add a nice dynamic element to a map.

The same goes with pent. It makes for some very important tactical decisions every 5 minutes (eg. how many do we send to guard pent? Do we take the man off RA temporarily? Where is the enemy attacking pent from?) and some exciting, fast, evasive gameplay should you mess it up. As long as it's not placed in some ridiculous, unguardable ffa location, it really adds to the complexity of a 4on4 match.

I'm very happy with the 4n4 tb3 to be honest, because of their diversity. All 3 have a totally different feel which imo is great.

I'm not a fan of cmt4. This isn't because it's kenya, but just that it doesnt feel right for me. I hate that big open ra in water room. As far as it concerns me it only annoyed and frustated me instead of giving me pleasure. In both defensive and offensive view point. I much rather see cmt3, allthough that map kinda gives me an dm3 feeling.
Besides that I haven't played tdm maps competively so I can't judge them... oh besides e2m2tdm I guess, but imo that's not a great map either.

Personal favourite is e1m2, because it gives me the best feeling when I play it. Feel like I always know what to do, ofcourse that's more a lack of my experience/skill on the other maps

I prefer 4on4 maps that are each different. If we had dm3, cmt3 and cmt4 it would be very dull with the same item structure all the time.

So I guess my answer is: a map that is not like e1m2, dm2, or dm3 but still plays well. I can't name one.

IMO that's the one element that's really lacking in map design, ammo placement. I'd love to see a map where harvesting the ammo played more of a role (e1m2 gets close sometimes). What I'd like to see perhaps is a map where ammo isn't scarce, it's just placed away from other items so that you have to take a significant detour to get it. For example say on dm3 if the rockets by sng were moved to pent mega (I'm not advocating changing dm3 btw, just using as an example).

I think the problem is that most maps were made at a time when ping/skill levels were much worse and so you get crates of ammo all over the shop to keep players entertained in the old days.... the original version of cmt4 (androm9) has even more ammo!

Of course it has to be said that if you restrict ammo too much then it can lead to a frustrating game.

Funny that this thread should get resurrected while we're in the middle of exploring cmt1b in daily mixes.

The vast majority of the people who play it seem to be happy with how the teamplay works out and how the map differs from the usual "dm3 with different textures" that you see in a lot of community-made maps.

Although we certainly get the occasional person who joins SOLELY to say "lolol kenya crap map wtf bbq /votemap dm3" we've been getting a hugely positive response from most of the players, and our official spec Milton; So much so that we tried to start a cmt4 mix today and it eventually mutated into another cmt1b mix making it the second most played 4on4 map after dm3 across all servers every day for the last 8 days.

We have newcomers every day so a few of us are experienced tour guides by now, and it will only take a match or two before you'll feel comfortable knowing what to do and how to react in a meaningful way.

We usually start the mixes at around 20:00 CET and they run for 3-4 hours, so feel free to drop by if you want to join us.

(Except today because dreamhack's on. Fuckin' A! :F)

nice post, Stev. and i agree, cmt1b seems to fit in this thread as it a) requires ammo management (especially cells) very much and b) it plays very different from tb3. it's way more roomy for a start, which i like.

edit: now someone go and test the other 500 maps designed for teamdeathmatch out there. chances are good you find the perfect map for you. certainly better than posting more ideas and detailed instructions for maps that will never be made- sorry :/

I'll join these cmt1b mixes soon as I'm quite curious. I also like to add that I normally don't give a shit about how games look, but I just can't stand the look of cmt1b. Who the fuck made the textures of that map

Someone "Ask" mappers to make competition for new 4on4 map ( like they did for vertical or map floating in the void) they like challenges. mostly they are single player mappers but some of them are very good in death mach maps.

3 MH!

ups. sorry

ENRAGED & CMT1B, had so much fun playing these maps in mixes !!

e2m5 =(