this quote is so obvious, yet still misunderstood.

So, in essence, it brings everyone down to the same lag-filled level.

I don't think so, There's at least difference in the kickback. If I'm guessing how it works right, the the low ping player receives the kick back in real-time (13 ms delay). High ping player gets those huge prediction errors where the client thinks the player has moved somewhere, after the lag however kickback-corrected player position arrives.

I don't like this theoretical blah blah tho, I can be very wrong. I'd like to test the antilag in practice. If anyone wants to join me, reach me in #qtv.

at least its fair that way, and antilag will help cover up the added lag! more seriously, sv_minping and antilag make a sane combo.

Regarding stev's gripes in #30:
1) If he is lagged too, he'll suffer the same lag when trying to dodge, it is at least fair in that regard. But yes, the timing is different and thus it would take practise to relearn.

2a) blood particles are still visible... but only if you're not moving very far or are running backwards
2b) or the fullscreen pain flashes which you probably disabled due to it reducing your fps by 3.

Reenabling 2b might help, though I'm not quite sure how much it'll help... nor do I remember the cvar!
Its slightly harder to guage exactly where you are hit (on the plus side, your lag will not affect the damage direction).

Whithouth antilag, when one player have high ping and the other have low ping is totally fair, ofc. Things works perfect for both.
/irony

Now seriously, make it at least able to use it when all players agree please, and also fix qqshka's version

Maybe we should start lpb and hpw leagues again...

Of course not, but we don't give hpws an aimbot either do we? It's one thing to create things that help cope with the lag (prediction, fakeshaft, early packets) and another to give lagged player unfair advantage and letting him do things that should not be possible to do in the game.

blAze: Are you considering all my ideas? Using it only when all players agree, the fact that most hpb's are less experienced, using it for pracs and friends not in official games, the fact that the advantage for the hpb given with it is far less powered than the disadbantage for hpb's withouth this, the ability to have a more challenging game for the good players, disabling it by default, it's helpfull for players which are learning yet, etc..... ?

If two players want to fight it out with aimbots and wallhacks, then who am I to say they can't. So yes, as an option that is used only when all participants agree to it, I don't mind, of course. Some of the other reasonings above, are not that good though.

Are you seriou? You can't be serious. The only reason you're giving us is exaggerating, or liying calling it something that it's not. Not a valid point.
This is NOT aimbot nor wallhack, is just clientside hitting.

read this remembering that I'm totally opposed to client side hit calculation, and would only support antilag if it the implementation were to be of the 'figure out where everyone was player ms ago' type


"and another to give lagged player unfair advantage"

How is it an unfair advantage? Doesn't it simply allow the hpw (on 52!!) to have the same aiming opportunities as the 13ms player?

"letting him do things that should not be possible to do in the game."

If the only thing stopping the player from doing these things is lag, then are they really not possible?

I'm guessing the main thing that would annoy people would be dying from an apparently safe position - so if antilag were to check that the shot was possible in current time before correcting for latency, then we'd have a situation where:
1. low pinging players don't get frustrated with seemingly impossible things happening
2. higher pinging players can aim like they're on 13ms with hitscan weapons, but would miss some shots as a player runs out of line of sight (which they'd miss anyway without lag correction)

What I mean't is that it's not my business if people want to use it, as long as it's optional and off by default. Maybe turning it on should need a majority vote like elect to avoid situations where one hpw is trying to force it on. We don't want another toggle contest in prewar like teamoverlay etc.

Yeah, it is hitting people where they aren't, so it's very suspicious either way.

In league games we try to equalize pings anyway. Maybe it's more relevant to consider if 50ms vs 50ms is more fun with antilag or without.

You don't think it's unfair that you skillfully evaded getting hit and then get hit anyway?


Without antilag, it's not possible to hit your opponent if he evaded your shot.

50ms is never fun.

blAze: Again, every single player must agree in order to use it.


You don't think it's unfair that you are skillfully hitting your enemy but he's not beign hitted?

I suppose this pretty much sums it up. So we have to make a choice do we favor lpbs or hpws in modern day quake. Not surprisingly, I vote for lpbs.

Traditionally higher ping has meant disadvantage in qw. Do we want to turn this upside down now, so that lower ping means disadvantage (with direct hit weapons)?

Maybe I'm just rubbish but how do you evade a hitscan shot? Obviously there's a skill in changing direction just as the next shot is going to be fired but at relatively low latencies is this really going to make a significant difference?

My last replay to you, blAze, because i feel i'm saying the same over and over: We aren't turning things upside down. If all players must agree in order to enable it, then people will use it only when the ping difference it's really notiable, and also for play some more close games when skill levels are not the same. I'm a rookie, and it's not the same playing with a good player in 90ms, which is more than frustrating, than playing him on 0ms(lg), and he will agree because the game it's more challenging for both, and less frustrating.

So, finally, i think we agree, they can implement this, but with a 100% of people in the server voting to enable it.

Edit: (Can't you say: "yes, i agree"?)

driz: Well, you pretty much answered yourself there. Obviously you can't evade it after it's shot, but you predict the next shot form the previous one with timing your movement. It's no different from projectiles really because they too are so fast that I doubt any human can react fast enough to a shot that is already fired.

I thought I did many times already, last in #43. For me it's enough to have a vote like with 'elect', so there is no toggle contest in prewar.

It's called consciously chaotic movement, and visualising the perspective of your foe, and sensing their tendencies to fall for different types of feint. And there are general spaces and ways of moving that are conducive to getting raped to avoid. It's trivial to say that, relative to rl/gl, it is easier to aim with hitscan (esp. shaft) than it is to evade hitscan), but dichotomising of damaging and dodging is an obviously pretty false abstraction.

you suffer hits from your enemy's erroneous point of view, making your movement simpler than it really is for the purposes of his aiming.

It's news to me that with high ping enemies movement becomes simpler.

from a latent playr's perspective, prediction errors of others' movement will be simplified i reckon except when they warp from drastically unpredictable perturbations

Say what?

If both players had antilag enabled, their hitscans would be equal. The one with higher ping would be still in disadvantage, because everything he sees and feels are lagged by his pingtime, which is higher than the other players, and it affects everything except for the hitscan weapons.


As for someone lagging 3s behind and hitting players that are still where they are not supposed to be, what makes you think that the normal pinging player haven't already killed the 3s lagging player? He can shoot all he wants, but if he died 2,5 seconds ago, everything he shoots will be ignored by the server. As you know, you don't know you are dead until the info from server comes to your client. The idea behind such a lag is totally outrageus anyway, and will never happen in real games.

So it's false to assume that opponent's movement is simplified from the combination of lag and prediction, thus making it an easier target? (is there even player prediction for opponents in qw?)


Perhaps the normal pinging player only has boomstick and he tries to escape to save his armor, but instead the lagged player blasts away 3 secs free to an immobile target. I used such a big number just for illustration purposes. If there is a problem, then it holds true for shorter times as well.

cl_predict_players


When you use realistic numbers "blasts away" becomes "gets one extra shot in, rarely". Lower pinger has similar advantage at the other end and all else being equal the guy who gets to shoot first, wins. He will also be able to start running away that much sooner.

As I understand it, in this aspect tables are not turned in favor of higher pinger.

Both are equally unacceptable scenarios.

Would it be correct to assume that the player prediction presents players moving in a direct line to their last known direction? Or how does it work? So if there was (again for arguments sake) 5 sec delay between updates, the players would seem to move 5 secs in straight line, before their position and movement direction would be corrected?