The Quake2 in HTML was a showcase of some alpha HTML5 and Google Chrome browser features, only some guys from Google worked on it, Carmack has nothing to do with it I think.

Well damn, JohnNy is on the ball today. I'll settle for summarizing every blAze argument ever made:


... as you might guess, I don't find this a valid argument.

1) It is still an argument (in my opinion can be easily disputed, but that's not important)
2) Distinguish argument from the user who posted it. Feel free to 'attack' the argument with your counter-arguments. Attacking particular user is forbidden on this forum.

Not disputing either of these points

Good thread.. I came from doom2.. Quakeworld scene after years away from FPS gaming on the PC I came back to it when I saw Quakelive being released.

I miss Quakeworld. Ezquake is the nuts.. im hooked again! just like the old days, I couldnt play the software version tho. the eyecandy in Ezquake just makes it and to be honest if feels so much smoother and better than Quakelive.

Anyway... it's all about word of mouth and advertising.. plus new websites.. quakeworld.nu was the only real Quakeworld website that I could find that was old out of date content.

I mean look at quakelive.. its an old game noone really plays Quake3 arena anymore either.. but soon as ID got the word out there people come flooding back to the scene..

Im looking at opening a few Quakeworld dedicated websites to try and push it out there again and get some new players or old players coming back to the scene. Theres people out there lads.. im a prime example aint played quake in like 8 years. BUT im back and ill be around for a long time again

just thought id have a little rant. see you on the servers lads... also if your on facebook. join the Quakeworld page..please

A suggestion (and apologies if this has already been mentioned - I haven't read the entire thread):

One way to attract new players would be to put on a QW demonstration at a LAN or similar gathering. By demonstration I mean a couple of players or teams playing a handful of matches for an audience. The LANs I've attended have always had half an hour here and there when nothing much is really happening. If we could somehow sweet-talk the LAN organisers round into a) allowing it and b) announcing / promoting it, that half an hour would be a good time to put some QW up on the big screens.

I realise, of course, that sweet-talking the organisers is going to be pretty difficult, and may require not just cash but imagination. Perhaps that's something to be discussed elsewhere. It would be worth it though, because nothing sells QW like div0 duels / 4on4. And of course, the spectator views on the big screens could have fancy settings turned on for spooge effect.

Just a thought.

qhlan 14 ? maybe what you where looking for?

I think we already have/had this as QW was featured on Dreamhack - the biggest LAN in the world?

QW is more or less an 'elite' pursuit that will never have mass appeal (nor should it), arts like chess, good music and improvisation aka 'sit-down-shutup-and-listen-music', kung fu etc. are viruses that are transmitted by introduction frmo friends and family or some exposure. An entire generation has grown up more or less not perceiving what a good multiplayer game is. To swell qw's ranks to the extent that perhaps could be, it just needs to be seen in the light that any avid qwer sees it, I dare say none of us could have hoped qw to last this long (in spite of its inherent worth), whic is of course a testament to the awesome ingenuity of developers, artists, admins, movie makers etc. Fanciful big prize money tourneys and propaganda campaigns are just idle fancies i reckon. Look at the games that attain 'prize sport leagues'. They are more or less just hugely popular mass appeal games of either the {warfare-simulation-funded-by-the-pentagon-anyone-can-get-a-kill-just-a-few-bullets-swiftly-delivered-brute-speed-accuracy-be-all-end-all} or the {levelling-up-mmo-arbitrary-flattery-musnt-be-able-to-lose} type, with the only significant exception being starcraft which literally (for those who don't know it's incessantly televised and the players are venerated by hordes of groupies like rock stars) is the national sport of the massively densely populated most wired country in the world, South Korea. Incidentally compare that with beligerent north korea which is like George Orwell's 1984 without the technology (no tech except for nuclear arms).

The truth is large masses never stick to ANY game for long. Sure, there are exceptions like CS, Starcraft, WOW etc. and it's one end of the stick, but other games aren't that lucky. QW is one of games that are good enough to gather number of players that will stick with it for long time - other examples are Tribes, UT, Q2, Q3, AoE, ET, WCIII, Mechwarrior IV, Freespace 2 etc. - it's the middle of the stick. But there is other end - countless RTS games, shooters, simulators that were popular for some months and then vanished without a trace. Some devoted individuals may still play them from time to time, but that's it. How many people still play Daikatana, Blood 2, Medal of Honor AA, Soldier of Fortune, etc? We are lucky QW is not among them.

QW is unfortunatelly antithesis of "good shooter" for dumb teenager gamers internet is dominated by. It have bad gfx - even if you pump it full of hi quality models they would complain. It is hard to setup - generation raised on consoles - put disc in and play - don't want to bother with complicated menus, console commands etc. It is unforgiving - if you are bad you won't simply get less frags than others - you won't get any at all. You'll be constantly raped and smeared on the floor without mercy. It is unbalanced - it takes a lot of skill to kill good player with RL with something else than RL or LG. It have movement technique you have to learn - they are used to "hit button for sprint" shit etc.. It don't have weapon loadouts, or classes, you actually must go get ammo, weapon and armor - and in most cases fight over them. It have no auto-aim - and today even PC shooters have some of it. It isn't constantly advertised - or whored - on every gaming-related site. And greatest sin - you have to THINK, outsmart your opponent, without it even light fast reflexes won't help. New generation of gamers don't like to think. And most of them hate keyboard+mouse controls in SHOOTERS(!!!) because thay are so used to inferior joypads. Someone may say joypad=k&m given enough practice - fool yourself, do 360 degree spin in 1/4 of second and nail direct rocket in guy above you, good luck.

All of the above are also reasons why i and many other people love QW and other "oldschool" shooters. There isn't a way to please both groups. Dumb game down and veterans will abandon it - leave it as it is and less and less people will come year by year. Of course you can try to do the impossible - but you'll end up with game for nobody. IMO this is exactly what happened to Warsow - 0.32 was very promising version, fun to play, but later devs decided to make newbs lifes easier, and countless fixes and two versions later it's only sad shadow of what it could be. Don't do this to QW, please, if it's destined to die, at least let it die with dignity.

I think the key is keeping the game pretty much as it is but try to show it more on lans and through good videos

Hehe Herb, you are right about a lot of things - but as I think I've mentioned plenty of times here, then the players you are talking about is not the ones we should try and motivate to play qw.

Anyways, I played some qw with my nephew last weekend, he is 16, used to play CS 1.6 but now plays CS:S - He thought it was awesome due to the fact that you could "bhop", so I guess qw still have something that modern shooters don't

i think the best way is to separate the people you don't agree with and paint them as "kenyanewbs" that don't really "get" the game like you do, while suggesting there's an unholy perversion to doing anything non-traditional to begin with.
it's very religious i like it ;p

As Zalon said: Just show the game to younger players and some of them will actually start playing. For them everything about the game is new anyway.

Another interesting question is how we do this in the most efficient way. Any new, ground breaking crazy ideas?

if only the xbox 360 fags would give the game a chance... qw would be soo much more fun if there was a noob community. even if a few kids tryout the game online they be slaughtered and wont be able to get a frag like Herb said. the game is too hard for new ppl so it will just slowly die... theres nothing to do to stop it

Of course yes. We want polite, skilled players, fun to play against. But the problem is there isn't plenty of people like that. If popularity is the goal, dumb masses are only way. It is impossible to make something popular by gathering only people who are actually worth it. Look at CS, or Q3 during their shinest moments - there was big number of elite players in both, most of them are great guys, but they were only small drop in ocean of trolls. QW's ocean dried long ago - only small drop is left. Mozart music is great, but will never be popular like musical junk produced every month, because average customer is too dumb to look at music in terms of art. They only look at the music in terms of background noises for partying. QW is art of gameplay, but few cares about it anymore. Most of people look at videogames in terms of flashy eyecandy that involves minimal brain activity.

Yes it is great, but it lacks any rhythmic sophistication, as did all western music (Bach,Beethoven,Chopin,etc) until Stravinksy's Rite of Spring in 1913.

I don't know what the goal is, imho as long as we keep enough players around to have the daily mixes, possibility to get pracs, people available for duels/pov etc. and keep enough clans for a normal sized EQL, 30-40 teams, 3 "large" divs. Some 150-256 players for a duel tournament.

As long as we can keep it like that, then I don't think it needs to be any more popular, thats enough for me atleast - I like that I know everyone who plays, I like that I have a history with most people I run into on the servers. If it was just me and 2000 new dumb people from the masses, I wouldn't be playing no more.

It's not just the gameplay I love, it's the scene.

A few thoughts on this.....

Realistically we can't make qw main stream or attract in loads of kids to the game at this stage.
And even if we could, we wouldn't really want that.

The aim should be to attract in enough new players a year (and a little more besides) to replenish those that are taking a qw break. That should not be an impossible task. We're not talking big numbers here. So it's a nice challenge. And of course it feeds on itself. You attract in a few more players, it then results in a little more activity. And as a result, current players dont leave, as there is more activity and they are getting games. And so on... so on.

If it were possible to get a few more teams up to Div 1 standard and make Div 1 really competitive again then I think that would be massive for the game. I think that would filter down throughout the whole scene. Afterall I think the 4on4 aspect of QW is a huge part of the game. The skill level on display is amazing at times. Like many others I may not play that often, but I always tune into watch the matches on the servers and to watch the best players playing together and marvel at their skills. QW 4on4 is a great spectating game and without having top clans and a competitive Div 1 then the scene doesnt have a soul and it will fade out quickly. Currently its just about hanging in there.

If over the next year, just a few key players from across the the current Div 1 clans take a break. Their team mates may not be interested in playing with others, as they have played with their teammates for years, and a result another couple of clans go inactive. The remaining top clans dont get the matches they once did and then they go inactive too and then and you go into freefall. This is what has been happening the past few years and any more clan drops in Div 1 and you wont get it back. The fact that QW still has 30 odd clans still competing, is incredible and should be really protected. Fair play to EQL crew and their plans for an Elite/Pro type league. Sounds like a good plan and hopefully it will be a success. It's definitely a start.

Perhaps also, something similiar could be done with the duelmania. Have the normal duelmania and then the top 8 go into a 'pro' playoff league later on. It creates excitement in the competition and you have a high profile competition as a follow on with the top duelers. That sort of competition would make great spectating as you have top player duels on all the time.

A few small (raw) ideas:
One would be for a Univerisity/College invitational competition. We contact university games societies (most colleges have them) in each country and pass on a pre-prepared invitation and info pack (nQuake client etc). Players from the current qw scene, could each take charge of their own country and try and generate interest by communicating with each of the Universities with the aim of getting at least one national Universities team to participate in the competition. They then help that team link up with the qw community and help point them in the right direction for resources. Students have time on their hands and if the event was marketed properly it could result in a handful of players staying on with the game after. Also with nQuake in the college you wouldnt need a top end PC's to play with, so it would suit colleges as they often don't provide machines with good graphics cards etc.

Also I think alot of people who once played back in the day, dont even realise that QW is still going after all these years. And if they knew, they would be amazed and might come back. QW has a strong nostalgic effect on people (As it was the first FPS game they played) and it shouln't be underestimated. A re-union competition, if organized and getting the word out there would bring back some old players for an event and once back a few might stay on and get the qw bug again. Those two along with the Ignition Tournaments and Kenya Nights, you have enough tools to slowly grow the player base and hence activity. I know it takes work and volunteers. And it needs to be consistent to retain players and stop the drop outs. But small initiatives would bring in some fresh faces.

Also I think getting a pak file that we can distribute with nQuake legally is very important.
There has been quite a lot of downloads of nQuake and eZQuake over the past couple of years but what are the conversion rates ? Could we associate a simple survey with the installer so we can determine who is downloading the client and what gripes do they have. I would imagine that many potential new players are turned off by simply having to go find a pak file to run the game. Stupid I know. But when I download software of any sort, I expect a few clicks to install the app and then it should work. No messing about looking for some missing files.

QW has a great community and scene and with a little bit of effort we can attract in just enough people to keep the game alive for a good few more years. Like many players, I dont actively play all the time but when I get time I come back and knowing that there would still be a scene in 10 years would be great and there is no reason why not.

So many people on here say it cant be done but surely its a challenge to increase numbers. If it works then we all benefit. If it doesn't at least its been tried. Are people interested in a group getting together to brain storm and try implementing some of the stuff mentioned throughout the thread ?

Just realised how long the post is. Sorry for boring ye all :-) It's Friday and I'm bored at work.

pleura: I found your post very worth reading and not boring. Good points in there. This kind of talking makes me wanna contribute with something! I could for example check out interest at schools if your "College invitational competition" idea would be rolled out. The re-union idea is wonderful too, and I'm holding great hopes for QHLAN in November for this. Maybe they could combine...

I've been doing some live commentary (inspired by similar things by chess players) aimed for beginner players to get an insight of what an average player is thinking when he is playing QW duel. It has become a once a month thing, but I think it is useful. http://youtube.com/user/quakephil

I haven't really announced it yet, or made any real news about it, since I donno how it is going to turn out, but maybe I'll do that (or someone else can if they think it is newsworthy)

Proper advertising and promotion of the game needs to exist, to get new players in. Currently this is not being done.

Do you have any ideas about in what ways this can be done?

Krass, it's almost impossible without magical thing called money. Without it, even "new" games (compared to QW) like Warsow and Nexuiz are doing poorly. We can try to push QW more on indie gaming websites etc. but it won't make much difference - it isn't where "pr0-gaming" audience gather. If only id were more community-friendly... QW tournament at every QuakeCon would be something at least, as it it widely known event like Blizzcon.

How do we go about getting the money then?

Use youtube and facebook! We already do that but keep doing it and paste links to videos, news sites and tournament sites!

I think some sort of matchmaking system will definitely bring new players. No one likes to get their ass handed to them on a regular basis. With matchmaking everyone will have fair, challenging duels and 2v2s.

agree!