Then why did you quote angryfish? If that is really what you meant, then your reply is simply not relevant to his post at all.

He was complaining that he needs to aim away from the enemy and that shafting has become too easy.

My reply was trying to point out that you need to aim directly at the enemy with any ping now and that shafting is not easier with antilag than it is with 12 ms ping without antilag. It's not easier to shaft with higher ping than 12 ms when using antilag, and with 12 ms it's exactly the same with or without antilag.

Well the 13ms gameplay is what Quake is originally made for. We are not supposed to be lagged, it's just an unfortunate reality for some. Antilag doesn't seem to make shafting any easier than it normally would be with 13ms. Players try to get LG because it's the most powerful weapon in the game and has always been that way unless you are lagged.

So let me ask again before I waste more of my time: Are you intentionally lying or are you just ignorant?

So, any conclusions about "antilag 12 vs 50 ms AND 50 vs 12" and "no-antilag 12 vs 50 AND 50 vs 12" ?

Pretty much only way to see if its a buggy/cheaty feature.

Saying this because angryfish says to him its easier with antilag than 12ms.

Also, is bigfoot's question code related?
We could do all types of tests with this feature, we still would not know/understand what exactly it is doing.

No, my question is still whether he is intentionally lying or if he is just ignorant. It's one of the two. Alternatively he graduated from Hogwarts while I wasn't looking.

Antilag simply doesn't do anything when a player has 12 ms.

I think maybe the problem is that he is so focused on an issue that doesn't matter at all that he simply cannot see the obvious? That could also be an explanation, although that falls under 'ignorant'. What's it gonna be, Medar?

What the fuck is wrong with you? Can't you debate like a civilised human being? If you have a point to make, then make it instead of trying to treat Medar like a piece of shit and bait him into a pointless argument; a courtesy he has afforded you so far.

bigfoot, are you intentionally a squid or were you just born that way?

Stev, I'm not gonna waste my time trying to explain it to someone who is just going to stick his fingers into his ears and yell 'la la la la la' anyway. If he is simply ignorant, then OK, I'll try to explain it to him. I might fail, but it would probably still be worth it.

Now the thing is that I can't believe that he is not aware of the simple logical fact that he cannot conjure lag away, even if he takes the Super-Duper-Anti-Lag(TM) code. I don't understand how this can have escaped him. I really don't.

To be honest, I leaning towards Medar simply wanting his borrowed code to be used no matter what. He will overlook inconvenient facts to try to persuade others into thinking that his flawed logic is sound. But I could be wrong him. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. If he doesn't want it, then OK, I just have to assume that he is being malicious, and then I'm not gonna waste my time trying to explain what he cannot/refuses to see to him.

So, dear Stev, there's not really much wrong with me as such, at least nothing relevant to this place. I'm merely tired of the same old people being intellectually dishonest and having to fight them. It's really rather boring, and I could have spent the time on something actually productive. Now I know you're going to say 'then don't!', but these people are trying to destroy the game I love. I'm sure you can see why I cannot let this happen? Had it been the first time someone had exclaimed 'I can break the first law of thermodynamics!', I would plain and simple have told him why he couldn't and let that be that. But we're what... 6 months into this circus now? And they just aren't giving up.

To close this off. 'Antilag', which is such a dishonest name, can never live up to its name. Never. I've previously suggested calling it 'Prolag', as that name is much closer to reality. But no, you can't just make lag go away, no matter how much you wish it. I understand that the Ezguys have spent 6 months lifting this code off FTE, but really... At least be honest about it, or just give it up, no matter how painful it might be after all that wasted 'effort' being poured into copy/pasting the code.

But Lithium, as far as I am aware, logic does not dictate that I'm a squid. Logic, however, does dictate that you can't make lag magically go away. You see the difference, right?

Firstly, Medar has only very recently begun contributing code to ktx and ezquake projects, so any animosity you have harboured towards the collective qw-dev developers is not really deserved by him. You don't even know him but you feel that throwing around all this negativity is an acceptable alternative to actual discussion, presumably because he worked on ezquake and everyone who does that is a direct descendant of Satan.

Secondly, I think he has made an honest attempt to explain the implications of antilag, both positive and negative, in two separate threads and a comprehensive blog post. He does it in a way which promotes the feature, sure, but that is because he believes it is beneficial, which is also why he contributed the patch to it (which also rules out a selfish need to promote his own feature as the reason for his promotion of it).

You can disagree with his assessment of the feature's impact on the game, but you cannot reasonably call him dishonest or ignorant, both of which are highly insulting.

Oh, I have nothing against the developers of the code the Ezguys copy/paste. Spike is a nice fellow, for example.


Medar doesn't even know me but he feels that fucking up QW is an acceptable alternative to actual thinking.


You said that, not me.


I think 'attempt' is the keyword here.


Where's the negative part? I think I missed it.



I love it that it is now completely kosher to think that Qqshka's brainfart is 'buggy', but back when Renzo was promoting it, it was grounds for endless hate.


He sure does. He promotes it like the MAFIAA promotes new legislation.


The MAFIAA also believes that their new legislation is beneficial.


It does? You'll have to explain that one in detail to me.


That, and I can also disagree with his ability to wave his wand and make lag disappear.


I can't? Those are the only real possibilites. Nothing wrong with being ignorant, BTW, as long as you're willing to learn. But truth sure does seem to hurt some people.

It seems though, that you can reduce it's impact on the game with this feature. If you have knowledge that the rest of us don't, do share. Personally I haven't noticed much change in the gameplay when this is enabled, at least nothing I could point my finger at...

bigfoot definitely have alot of time to waste and he do it with please.
he likes to showoff to take some attention to his poor person.
as div9 player he trying to explain to Medar how he trying to fuck up QW, how funny.

little annoying troll with lack of attention.

anyone who up to waste his time on him - you are welcome, personaly I will not. :<

I can see bigfoot's point about not being able to remove lag, but I don't see the picture about the "FTE code copy/paste"-part?
Do you mean that FTE has done it correctly? <-- You can't be since as you said you can't remove the lag.

I guess you just wan't this "feature" disabled? But then again I don't see the part about FTE copy/paste (want to start a flame war about the original "antilag by qqshka"?)

I think it's worth explaining what the debate above was about.

1) angryfish wrote post about his experience with "shafting" and "airshafting" and where to move crosshair while shafting.
2) Medar replied to that post explaining some changes and also saying that "aiming" is always like with 12 ms
3) Some people, like me for instance, will automatically assume that with "aiming" in the context of his reply Medar means only "shafting" and where you move your crosshair in relation to where you see the enemy.
4) Some people, like bigfoot for instance, will automatically assume that with "aiming" in the context of his reply Medar means aiming with every weapon in QW.

yea props to Medar for trying to explain the 'fineprint' of antilag. i'm still posting there btw

[edit]On second thought, there is no point in continuing this line of discussion if it will achieve nothing.[/edit]

Renzo: Please disable antilag in all your servers

Just happened to me: I join qw.fi with 77ms, someone with 13 ms there, i ask for playing pov and he says: No because your ping is too high and i don't see your shaft hitting me on my screen. GG so now i can't play because the admin decided to enable antilag??? WTF I'd rather play with 77ms withouth antilag than not-playing at all because antilag gives me advantages over low ping players (or at least some people think so).

Shafting with/without antilag is really different. When I come back from Pangela to Asters, I feel there is something wrong with antilag and cheerfully welcome old server settings. The game feels different, the shaft feels different. I'm not for this feature so far.

Don't you have completely different ping on pangela and asters? one would think that has bigger impact on your gameplay than antilag.

It was Medar who called your code buggy, not me. Please direct your frustration at the right person.

Reduce? No. You can shuffle it around. Since other people's lag is projected onto you with prolag, you need to play against someone with a high ping to notice how it affects you negatively.

Come on, Fog, you can't already have forgotten how much you insulted me because Spike did a technically sound implementation of Prolag, can you?

The code that's being discussed now is that. Spike is the author of FTEQW and ironically he is probably the biggest code 'contributor' to the various Ezprograms.


The concept and especially the premise is flawed. How FTE implements it is technically sound, though.


There are several problems here. There's the flawed concept, the seriously FUBAR implementation (which is thankfully no longer being promoted), the attempts by the Ezguys to dictate how others should play QW and then Renzo's attempt at backdooring this into QW. None of it is OK.


Again, it was not me who called it buggy, that was Medar.

I think it's worth explaining that the whole issue went completely over your head.

1) Angryfish points out that shafting is easier on a high ping with Prolag than it is with a low ping.
2) Medar refuses to acknowledge any possible problem with Prolag.
3) I call Medar on his bullshit.
4) Johnny_cz makes up random things people supposedly have said and think.

I have, but didn't really notice anything besides them being able to aim better than they normally would with their ping. I still won like I would on 13ms. Did they play better than they would on 13ms, I can't tell.

So how was it? Did I insult you because Spike's implementation was better than qqhskas, or was it because you were behaving extremely bad?


And that is different compared to this version how? I only see you wanting to say: "You've stolen Spikes code, therefor it must have been the best, I was right!!"

That the original "antilag" wasn't the optimal solution has been stated 6 pages back in this thread, no need to take it up again.

I can agree about it being flawed. I would like it to be disabled and removed completely too. But if the majority of the players feel that this is what they want and they are willing to take some drawbacks, then so be it.

I do totally agree on that it was unquestionably retarded the way it was done with server administration and trying to sneak it in, but there is another thread for that.

I was asking why you wrote this, haven't questioned anything else:
If you still believe it was your solution called prolag that was the ground for, according to you, endless hate, I can once again tell you it wasn't, it was your attitude and unsmooth way of expressing yourself.

Ah, sorry, corrected version:

1) angryfish wrote post about his experience with "shafting" and "airshafting" and where to move crosshair while shafting.
2) Medar replied to that post explaining some changes and also saying that "aiming" is always like with 12 ms
3) Some people, like me for instance, will automatically assume that with "aiming" in the context of his reply Medar means only "shafting" and where you move your crosshair in relation to where you see the enemy.
4) Some people, like bigfoot for instance, will automatically assume that in that post Medar claims antilag removes lag completely.