So it seems. Well that certainly makes it a bit problematic.

how interesting, say I have ping 10 seconds and I will see enemy at the right position? I guess enemy waited all this time and stands still or qw have some magic method to predict it.

Qqshka,

I intentionally didn't quote your post because I want to give you a fair chance to read what you're writing a couple of times, realise how stupid what you're saying is and then edit your post.

You have about 12 hours before I completely rip your post apart.

But with antilag it doesn't matter if you see him at the right position, it's enough that your client shows him _somewhere_ and you can start shooting it, right? Also when talking about someone waiting at quad and talking realistically about tens or hundreds of milliseconds, not tens of seconds, the chances are that the opponent is in fact standing still at the same place and is shown correctly.

Situation:
Map dm3.
Player Bigfoot has ping 10s (lets consider that each packet from client to server come over internet during 10s and each packet from server to client 10s too.) Bigfoot in a position on the ring, behind corner near YA-UP. He comes to quad.
Player B1aze has ping 13ms. He is waiting for the RA.

In 10 seconds:
Bigfoot's client show him information that he is waiting for the quad and client know that B1aze is waiting for the RA.
B1aze got ra and come to the ring.
So server have information that B1aze on the ring near tele and Bigfoot on the ring near YA-UP (according to packets from Bigfoot's client which he sent 10seconds ago).
B1aze's client has almost the same information as the server and he starting to use his LG on the ring.

In another 10 seconds bigfoot will realize that he died. (And he notice B1aze on the ring near tele before death).

Don't need to wait 12 hours before post why am I wrong.

bullet time anyone?

You will see him where he was 10 seconds ago. Which is exactly where you need to aim to hit him when using _your_ Prolag crapola, which is _exactly_ what is being discussed. Qqshka, WTF, do you even think before you type?


Seriously, did _you_ of all people really say this? You, mr 'OMG I conjured lag away!'? Are _you_ of all people in QW finally realising that you can't make an instant teleporter out of a few lines of C? And _then_ you apply this newfound revelation of yours to a situation where it plain doesn't matter EXACTLY because _YOU_ have chosen to push lag from the lagged player onto the non-lagged player? Seriously, Qqshka, What. The. Fuck?

Yes, I'm completely flabbergasted that you go on, make a quick hack that completely turns the QW world into running out of sync, completely fail to realise the simple logic in that you can't just make lag go away, then market it as having invented a time machine and/or a teleporter _AND THEN_ try to ridicule someone who is pointing out that very flaw to you by claiming that he needs magic to do _exactly_ what is possible _entirely_ because of the ugly hack you initially did.

Seriously, Qqshka, you often say and do stupid things, but this really takes the cake. Again, Qqshka, what the fuck?!

OK, I understand that trying to keep track of two different worlds and understanding how they interact with each other might be difficult for some, but let me try to explain the scenario to you once again, hopefully making it entirely clear what is happening here. Keep in mind that this is using your 'idea' of running QW out of sync and pushing lag onto the attacked person.

OK, basic scenario is this, as I've mentioned before: We have two players. Let's call them ExtremelyLagged and NotLagged to make things easier. To make this thought experiment easier, let's assume that ExtremelyLagged has 300ms latench in each direction, server to client and client to server, and NotLagged has 0ms latency. The two players are on dm3.

ExtremelyLagged is standing at window. That's on the other side of the wall from quad, in case you're unsure where it is. NotLagged is standing still near quad. ExtremelyLagged moves around the corner and starts shooting lightning at NotLagged. NotLagged starts dodging the lightning gun as soon as he sees ExtremelyLagged.

Now what happens here? Maybe it's easier if I recreate the timeline from the point of view of ExtremelyLagged and the point of view from the server, which will also be the point of view of NotLagged.


Now, as you can see, ExtremelyLagged gets 500ms, or 5 lg shots, which will always hit NotLagged, assuming ExtremelyLagged can hit a target that stands still, before ExtremelyLagged sees NotLagged dodge or gets pushed back by NotLagged's lightning gun. That's 150 damage for free. Do still keep in mind that the lightning gun hits what ExtremelyLagged sees, so as long as he doesn't see NotLagged move or doesn't see himself get hit by NotLagged's lightning gun, his own lightning gun will just hit NotLagged which is standing still on ExtremelyLagged's screen.

But hey, you should know all this, because _you introduced this braindamage to Quakeworld in the first place_. Seriously! WHAT THE FUCK?!

Qqshka, stop doing random things. Think before you do things. Please. Is it so much to ask? Think! Had you thought just a little bit before exclaiming 'OMG, I made a time machine!', you would have realised that this concept is completely flawed and left the idea right there. Think!

On a brighter note, I want to thank for you having completely disqualified yourself from anything to do with the concept of time, including lag, in the future, because you quite clearly simply do not understand it. If you ever mention anything involving time again, I can simply link back to this post. Thank you!

Right, it only takes 30 seconds. Unfortunately I didn't have time before now.

Learn to follow a discussion. Please read the posts you are replying to. Thanks.

Actually, antilag is not a panacea for high pingers, and even you see enemy and you aim exactly at his body you have serious chance to miss, since personal position is not antilagged and current position used (which server have) which result in what you aim not from the same point where you see it in client which in turn may result in miss and we all know how huge knock backs in QW.

The issue which bigfoot is mention as usually exaggerated and can be noticed at certain angles and certain situation with high pings but who whould play with ping 300? And anyway with ping 300 and anitilag you have no chance against low pinger, actually even on pov in such situation low pinger may use rl only and win ez, you know how knock back felts on such high pings? So what do you prefer, ping 13 or ping 300 with some doubtful advatages at certain situations and clear disadvatages? But if we use some sane pings(~70 and lower, personaly I think ~100 is acceptable too, acceptable in terms of bug free, not like I think it playable as player) and majority games played on ping 52 and lower effect of such issue is ~zero. So again, it just exaggeration and trolling and wasting of our time.

After all, I love QW not less than anyone of you.

Qqshka, you do not understand time. Please refrain from attempting to comment on issues involving the concept of time. See here for more information.

Tell me this please.

Anti-lag should only be used with KTX right? I think it would be dumb in FFA or CA.

How does your own location affect to hitting with antilag btw? What exactly is sent to server, the point that your lg would have hit, or your position and angle u shot at?

if what bigfoot say in post #247 is true then antilag is the worst thing to ever hit qw.

seriously tho, dont try to fix what isnt broken. if you have bad connection deal with it in the correct way ie get a better connection, dont change qw to suit the hpws. (given that post #247 is correct)

Unfortunately good connections are only available in Sweden and not everyone can live there, it would get too crowded.

What would the timeline look like if we switch the players' pings in Bigfoots example?

Bigfoot has a point in his post but,

I think the benefit that this feature gives us in NORMAL games (12ms vs 24 ms, even 50ms vs 50ms and so on) weighs much more than the damage it does if you play with someone who's at 300+ms.

I've played qw for only a bit more than a year, but I have yet to see a player in a 4on4 game with a ping higher than 150, and if people start delaying their packets just to get high ping it's easy just not to /ready.

Let's face it. EVERY feature has downsides to it, but this would allow players without great connections (read: BuLaT and other kurwas) to actually get a somewhat fair fight.

It doesn't get harder for the lowpinger. The difference it makes is that it makes the difficulty the same for the highpinger. UNLESS you're on abnormally high ping, which you simply aren't. So that's irrelevant.

Now that is if I understood this feature correctly.

Let's also remember that most modern games uses similiar features, including newer quakes (quake 3, quake 4). But you know what they say... It's hard to teach an old dog to sit. =) and it's even harder to teach an old dog to accept change, as is shown in this thread!

Edit:

after reading the entire thread I also notice that Bigfoot has a habit of attacking people personally and insulting people in almost every post he makes.

I've got to give it to you Bigfoot, I think you're intelligent and you try hard to prove your points to people who do not understand you. I can't say I understand all your points either, but I try my best to understand them all, but you should know that more people would listen to you and definetly be more interested in trying to understand if you were a bit more polite and actually spoke like a normal person. I'm sure you don't speak like that to other people in real life (or you'd most likely get beat up sooner or later by someone who wouldn't allow someone to talk to him in such a manner).

My advice is to shape up your behaviour and people would definetly not disregard your points anymore and listen much closer to what you have to say and the points you make. =)

Good luck in the future

/andeh

Well, you can always deal with high ping in the way squeeze does... adapt and use other tactics

Well, that will only take you so far. You will never win anything of importance with such ping disadvantage. Besides antilag was enabled already for a looong time and probably improved squeeze's results a great deal troughout the entire season.

Are you joking or specially warping things?
Lets see at your table which is fucked up at beggining.


And how comes LAGGED sees NOT LAGGED ealer?
Actually it looks like this:


Slightly ironical, but you can get the point.

Andeh, i think they had problems with each other in the past, so Bigfoot is not attacking randomly. He proved his right with a small demo. My trust towards the antilag is 0. Im so happy that squeeze can play very good with antilag, really, but make it optional, cos i really dont like it. -1 player(me) from late night mixies

And that's developer's answer, no comments.

Nothing additional sent to the server right now, server may guess all it need on his own, well, it should be so but unfortunatelly there is things which make this state fail. So let me explain AL yet more time and why own location have issues.

Basically, when AL is ON server just keep in mind history(origins) of where players was, so server receive packet from the player and place players at origins where they should be from the client point of view (own position not changed!!!) but that all you know alredy. So what with own location. Let use some weird example so you can get it, say you have ping 300ms (!), packet travel 150ms from server to client and 150ms back to the server. You aim at some point but while you do so you experience rocket hit (for example) and you will gain some knock back which result in you location change but because of high ping you will know about it in 150 ms late and whole 150ms you will naively aim even your own position completely different which ofc result in miss(or at least may result). Well, we all know how RJ looks at high ping, you shoot rocket but you does not see knock back and only after some delay you will notice it, that means what for ping/2 your client show you wrong own location. But luckily, we does not play on such pings so influence of this effect is yet again minimal.

2everyone:

All this flame about how AL drastically changing game is EXREMELY exaggerated if we imply sane pings, simply imagine 50ms fraction time and speeds, which is not so common anyway, more like 39ms and 26ms, right?

Stop to fight windmills, k?

be silent then.

make it a toggleable option that defaults to OFF. all this drama just shows there will be at least as many drawbacks as there are advantages if it's introduced as standard.
i'll make a public promise here to turn AL on whenever i play someone with ping 20+ higher than me (including Stev).

Since I interested how AL changed game in real life, not some hypothetical examples, so I looked some games by sqeeze on foppa.dk, there NO AL, he performed well vs sr or tvs (it make me wonder thought) so not everything explained by AL.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that this is only fucked up at high pings - the use of a high ping in the example is just to make it easier to understand the problems involved, hoping that Qqshka might finally get it, which he obviously didn't. The effects are exactly the same at lower pings.


*bow*

Qqshka, we already know that you don't understand the concept of time. See here for a thorough explanation. You've tried for how long now? Half a year? And you still don't get it. It's OK, though. I'm sure there are other things you are good at.

Why? Your complete and utter ignorance when it comes to logic and programming needs to be exposed at any possible occasion given how much damage you've caused in the past, continue to cause and have promised to cause in the future.

Whoops, sorry, missed your post.

If you switch the players around so the low ping player is the one who attacks, the basic time advantage at the beginning of the fight is swapped, although the low ping player will still be subject to various oddities such as being hit when the enemy's lightning beam is nowhere near him and the thing shown in my demo a couple of posts back.

I can make another table for this scenario if you like, but it won't be before tonight or tomorrow.

Yes I know and I understand that the effects are exactly the same on lower pings, it's just less noticable. But isn't that the point of it all? I mean, as long as you don't notice it because at 50ms (0.050 seconds) it helps the gameplay alot and allows people to actually use the lightning gun and be good with it.

As I understand it that effect that you described will always be there and it is indeed a downside to this feature but on lower pings than 300 it shouldn't even be noticable, or am I wrong? I don't know for sure =)

And about your bow, please read the rest of what I wrote =) that was just a starting line, it was the ending of that part that had any significant meaning =)

Yours,
Andeh