Noticed in an EQLro game last night some of the 'dodgy' stuff that can happen with antilag, e.g: check out this mini-demo:

http://www.mediafire.com/?8bz2ms7if4mb8lz

What you are looking for is first of all Squeeze POV, notice how he boomsticks Zero through a wall at quad. Then check how much health Zero had, 22. So it's not like he how really low health and could just be killed by one or two pellets. Without antilag (or against a player with 13ms), it would be physically impossible for Zero to have been killed from the position he was at, he was behind a wall so could have considered himself "safe" (from Squeeze). The end result is that Squeeze kills him through a wall and takes the quad for himself.

Of course, such situations are predictable when players have 120ms+ and one could argue that the benefits of antilag outweigh such disadvantages (i.e. if Squeeze had 13ms he may well have killed Zero before he got behind the wall anyway).

I'm too lazy to check the thread again, but isn't there a check in antilag that behind-wall shots can't happen? Maybe in this case zero's hitbox wasn't completely behind the wall yet so it didn't kick in.

Well, in this case, I don't think there's any question that this would have happened. You can see the blood effect where Zero was when Squeeze hit +attack, and you can also run the demo back ~120ms to see that it places Zero clearly within Squeeze's field of view (even after accounting for all the client-side prediction). In the case of Squeeze being on 13ms, the result would be identical in this situation.

Situations, where antilag fucks the gameplay: Using tele to attack (mega on dm6, dm4 tele-ga, and a lot more), or escaping with lg from lg hAtch, intended telefrags, boomstick fights, telerj attacks... We all enjoy different things in qw, i enjoy when a talented player demonstrate his fast reaction time with theese things, and i think with antilag, fast reaction time is not that big advantage as it was before(still big). High ping is predictable, antilag is not, it is so random.

No news that its weird to play vs squeeze on especially e1m2 when antilag is enabled. Some "nice" "warping" effects.

Antilag for sure destroyed a lot of qw. But I'm guessing when people are unable to improve, the only way left is to make the game easier.

So true.

The nice "warping" effects have nothing to do with antilag. It just comes with high ms, in any fps for that matter.
And about the demo it looks quite clear imo that he isn't shooting at the wall and the blood we see is where the hitbox was when he shot zero, zero had a little bit of speed cause of the grenade that hit him which put his hitbox a bit behind him.

While sure it's good if people bring up obvious flaws if they find them with antilag. Such as this video actually being squeeze wallhacking which IMHO he wasn't.
I don't see any reason to see antilag as nothing but a good thing and anyone who thinks a 130ms player has an advantage over a 12ms player cause of antilag is retarded, just use cl_delaypacket and try and play pov, see how good your shaft is.

Everybody who is whining about antilag players winning boomstick and lg fights vs you and it's unfair, just learn to aim with these weapons instead, because that's where the real problem is at.

I give the utmost respect to our northamerican friends who play with 100+ ms and don't whine a bit and play at a pretty damn good level, especially squeeze who would rape you all with 12ms (tho he probably allready is with his 130ms).

Antilag just gave hpw players a boost, but they're still at a huge disadvantage.

You do realize that mvd has only 30fps and the rest of the 77fps gets interpolated, right? Also model hitbox is actually bigger than what you see. In this particular demo, if you watch squeeze using something like 5% demospeed and where he hits and where his crosshair is, it looks like a cheat because it's actually few degrees of the hit spot, which it isn't, just interpolation being late/wrong. From squeeze's point of view, I'm sure he was aiming at the enemy model, a qwd could easily prove that.



Guess what you will, but it is quite certain that a person with 50% sg and 40% lg at 13ms won't get any better results with 130ms + antilag. 100% accurate aimbot can't do that, so a person with human's accuracy and at least 100ms late reflexes can?

It is not about the advantage, or victory... we want to play qw as we like, is that so hard to understand? no need ur arrogand replys, dont be a jerk. Im with 52 ms anyway.

Well if I came of as a jerk I'm sorry, but yea fog's comment "But I'm guessing when people are unable to improve, the only way left is to make the game easier." did piss me off a bit and that is probably why my post was quite jerky .
That comment makes it sound like the reason hpw's (before antilag) couldn't aim well with sg/lg etc was because they weren't good enough or able to improve anymore. Which I find quite offensive. Tho I like dimman and it's probably not what he meant really so yea I'm sorry again about sounding like a jerk before.

But still people use antilag as a excuse alot to lots of situations even tho they really have no idea how antilag actually works and what it does. Alot of people use it as their excuse when someone is actually just aiming better than they do. "I lost an lg duel vs a hpw, fucking antilag is ruining the game making me miss more and anyone with high ping is now an aimbot" <- is so wrong :/

I think most people agree that antilag is a good thing. As long as low ms is better than high ping and antilag I don't see a problem. And lots of these "problems" people seem to find with antilag that is "destroying" qw have no backing or factual evidence.


PS. Sorry if I sounded like a jerk this time again but I am actually a little pissed about this Don't want to start any flaming and like I said in first post it is ofcourse good if anyone finds any real flaws with antilag and can prove them and ofcourse they should.

ah np, it often happens with me too to loose my temper in this matter, it is understable. As for proving its flaw, first, check the demo named prolag.qwd from this page: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=55269 (i suggest to skip the conversation, its pretty long, the demo is at the 3/4 of this page) even Renzo(respect) admited this flaw, and it is with antilag 2. I suggest to all, watch this before we arguing about it. And this is an example of a cornerkill: http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/37437 its an enjoyable game, but if u dont like it, skip to 8:38, when Adren killed Griffin with a boomstick. once i was killed at ztn mega tele from ga/ng stairs(vs 130 ping). Im too tired to create demos, but im pretty sure, if i have 130 ms, u have 12, ill escape with lg from lg hatch on dm6 while u are waiting at the portal to rl the shit out of me Same with intended telefrags. We should discuss about this matter cos it is a relatively new feature, and not all like it, and it can contains still unknown bugs.

Watching that demo at a low speed (I watched it at 1%), it can clearly be seen that Griffin's model is visible to Adrenalin as he fires. And, even if his model had barely managed to edge its way past the corner before appearing to die (a virtually impossible feat at ground speed against a 50ms opponent), against a 13ms opponent, Griffin would have been killed anyway.


Antilag only affects the hitscan weaponry (sg, ssg and lg) of the person on high ping; Not their movement through teleporters, resulting telefrags, nor how enemy shots from any weapon affect them. In fact, the lack of client-side teleporter prediction in quakeworld means that any use of teleporters puts you at a tremendous disadvantage in terms of visibility and reaction time.


I don't understand this situation. Perhaps you could clarify so someone can address your concerns.

, and dont miss the prolag.qwd demo

yeah because playing qw without antilag on 38ms or even higher is so much fun.

I didn't correct you on that because that is the only thing you mentioned which can potentially cause a problem. When someone on high ping is lging an opponent in such a way that the knockback alone pushes them out of their field of fire (eg. someone standing still at the edge of a ledge while the opponent attacks from below), the potential to land one extra cell per 100ms of ping exists.

Its hard to arguing with you, so i wont do it, and im tired of my own whine, maybe next time. Lets just say we are disagree in everything ggs
to En_karl: some ppl enjoy more the challenge than the victory itself. cmon 38 ping isnt that bad

Challenge? Why would I like the challenge of not being able to hit close as good as my opponents that are on 12-25ms? And yes, 38ms is extremely frustrating to play with when you have tried antilag/lower ping for a while. Sg is where it's most noticeable since you use it the most I guess, totally useless.

I kind of didn't form that sentence any good. It was pointed towards some devs/admins who consider themselves to stand much higher than everyone else and can freely do whatever they want with the game. Nothing new on my opinion there and I don't think anything will change anyway, but now you know it wasn't aimed towards you or any other regular player with high ms.

I think antilag is a great feature. It really evens out the effect of ping a lot on reasonable pings. I can't see any harm in giving players a choice though and of course I still think that game changing features shouldn't be introduced in secret.

no surprise you dont like the 38ms without antilag if you play only with it for a year. what fun is completely subjective, so lets move on. I accept you like it, pls accept i dont like it. Its not a simple question like it is good or bad, i can admit it has an advantage, but i feel the disadvantage is bigger to me(..to me, so it is also subjective). My config is absolutly not antilagfiendly, and i really enjoy to play with it. We enjoy different things in qw. Be happy buddy, you are on the winner side since it is enabled on nearly all servers, so why dont you just ignore my blablings? I would disable it only, if my opponent also hate it, like it happens many times on geeky, when we playing our dm4 duels. BTW there is no way to disable it if its on.

Arguing? That entire post was telling you where you were right, and explaining precisely how it could affect the game.
The previous post could hardly be called arguing either. I presented some facts to correct some misunderstandings you had on the function of antilag. There is no debate or disagreement involved.

Arguments would arise from whether we think the potential benefits outweigh the potential problems, but not when it comes to indisputable facts. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion that antilag is a bad idea, however it would still be best if you were aware of all the facts to avoid inadvertently spreading misconceptions.

I have good news for you! Current builds of KTX do indeed contain an antilag toggle, although this is likely to be changed to a vote in the future. It has not yet been updated on geeky, however.

Now i have all what i wanted, thx for the good news, have a good fragging time to all.

I never suggested otherwise About 10s earlier in the full demo there's another example where he shoots a guy who is 'behind' him but I didn't think that was worthy of note because the shot is technically possible from the enemy point of view (i.e. no wall in the way). It was just really noticeable as a spectator, you know, one of those things even at full speed that looks so wrong so you are like "OK, what's the gameclock, I'll check the demo later". Oftentimes you were mistaken and watching in slow-mo it doesn't seem so weird but in this example clearly it was an impossible shot.

That's the issue I'm driving at here, not whether the shot looks right from the killer POV, but whether it looks right from the victim POV, in terms of being in a technically 'safe' position but being hit based on where you were in the past. If we extend this to a more exaggerated example you could have a situation whereby a player could drop a pack because they wait until they are round a corner before switching weapon but then get zapped by a quad guy. Not very likely because the 'window of opportunity' is probably not that wide and most players wouldn't risk the switch but it had been suggested by some that shooting through walls wouldn't happen 'in practice' yet clearly it does.