But this feels very temporary. Like I can imagine some admins just not bothering with it after a while or so. Antilag 0 as a voting system (decided my other idea was ridiculous) would always be in ktx updates and on all servers.

If it will be unused, where is the need?


You will still have the same issues with knockback/getting shot while already behind a wall... If your opponents are using antilag.

I was going to yell at you for intentionally misunderstanding me, but I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...

Assuming the number of players remains constant, players using a new antilagless port will mean another is freed. This is will certainly be true unless the server is very popular and simultaneously has very few ports.


Yes. I don't like the idea of per-player antilag. It doesn't make much sense IMO.

The whole feature didnt make sense from the beginning. Reality is what it is, no need to simulate other circumstances. The solution is better internet connection. Cant get one? Not the rest of the players fault.

kthxbye

You forgot this part when answering, it is IMHO the main issue with a "antilagless port" compared to a voteable toggle.

If those warping hwps (whoever they are, obviously they have pretty good hitscans) had 13ms/0pl, you would still feel they got an aimbot, since antilag does not mystically make your aim better than it would be under perfect conditions (read: 13ms/0pl). Also, antilag does not make their warping different in any way, so you wouldn't be able to see them any better even if antilag was disabled.


It makes perfect sense. Not everyone can get 13ms you know, especially when you are talking about international games that have players from all around the europe (or maybe even world, considering US players participate in EQL), so what's the harm in trying to even out the ping difference?


Antilag was never meant to be used in games like 13ms vs 100ms. I also remember the problem bigfoot showed with the demo on povdmm4, but the problem was once again related to very high ping difference AND on an opponent not moving at all. Go find that thread elsewhere and see if there was some explanation of the issue. I also agree with spike (and a lot of players) that the delayed effects of the pushback, also the fact that antilag does not make movement and/or projectiles lag go away. But I'm not going to talk more about the merits and problems with antilag on this thread, there is a place for that in other threads. Also, antilag is explained extremely well on Medar's blog, what it does and what it does not.


Also note that there is NO official release of the MVDSV that supports antilag, the latest release (MVDSV 0.29 + KTX 1.37) does NOT contain anything related to antilag. There is no documentation on how to enable antilag, and it defaults to 0 if you take the sources from SVN and compile builds for yourself, so it's up to the admin to actually enable it somehow.

What I've been waiting for is some sort of decision whether or not leagues allow antilag or not, so you can have the proper config on servers. Currently EQL rules state that:


And finally, if you want to suggest changes to MVDSV (this is not a KTX feature) you go to the project site and open a new issue on the tracker. But do notice that the serverside development is pretty much dead at the moment.



EDIT: moved to proper forum, this is obviously server related thread.

Don't understand why people keep complicating things.

I enter a server and type in console:
voteantilag off

If all players agree (or majority), antilag will be turned off. Or voteantilag on
Is this so complicated to achieve for developers ?
All people happy, end of story.

geeezzz.....

It hampers the gameplay.

angryfish is requesting a "Antilag toggle", how is this not a KTX feature? As I understand it, if servers use sv_antilag 1, the mod can decide if it should be on or off right? Hence a toggle in KTX is possible...

Votable options do complicate things. They lead to arguments on server. And it would be another toggle to mess up. Often matches are started with wrong teamoverlay or spawnmode setting.

And ppl forget to check client and ruleset

How is an argument over server settings (antilag toggle) _any_ different from an argument over which port to use on said server (antilagless port)?

Well antilag still makes the competitive scene a lot bigger, because 51+ pingers can compete with it aswell. Even 13ms vs 38ms is huge difference in shafting. I wouldn't like to play with knowing that my opponent can't shaft (and sg/ssg in 4on4) his best.

That is something you have to take up with the server admins, no leagues allow teamoverlay, yet it is still the default on most servers. We could take this as an indicator, that server admins doesn't always base their server settings on league rules. So what do you think will happen if leagues disallow antilag without a toggle?

Stop splitting hairs and take responsibility for once?

If leagues won't allow antilag, there's no reason to keep it enabled on servers, is there? Plus the fact I already mentioned, there is no official MVDSV supporting antilag, so one decision would make things easy.

The reason there was no toggle in the first place (you can read the reasoning from that other antilag thread, and probably from elsewhere) is the fact that the setting should be for everyone, whether it's disabled or enabled to prevent fighting over the server or the setting itself.

Now I'm almost possitive you're trolling me...

How the f*** is that supposed to be an answer to my question?

all the spinning is making me dizzy

#48

yeah that made sense didnt it?

the europeans might not have 13 versus the americans (with ping 90-120) on an english server but 26-51 at least. was it meant to be used for that? 26ms vs 90ms?

just wait till buffy gets a new isp! he will finally have 13ms on his localhost...

Pings with less difference actually. 13 vs 38ms is ok, 13ms vs 51ms is not, while 38ms vs 64ms is somewhat acceptable. 51ms is the first ping in qw that fucks up movement badly when being hit, so 51ms vs 90ms sounds accetable (they both suffer from hits/pushback quite badly though).


@jogi: rule #5; you already have a warning from personal attack on this forum, your replies don't contribute anything to this thread/issue.

If you combine it with my last reply to you, it seems like a fine answer to me...

However, to make it clear to you what I mean, here goes...

You are saying that we should have 2 different kind of servers, some servers with antilag and some without.
- I quote ParadokS, because I agree that it's a horrible solution, and will result in splitting people on each side together with a lot of arguments regarding server choice.

You are then asking what the difference between different server settings and a toggle is, in regards to the server choice.
- I then quote myself saying that league admins can't decide on somethings players can't change.

Then you ask if that is supposed to be an answer to your question
- If all servers have an antilag toggle, league admins can decide if it should be on/off during league play. If there is no toggle, such a rule will interfere with the rules regarding server selection, and some servers might be unusable for league play.

Hell no, make it either - or.

When did antilag become my responsibility?


There should be quite many players out there not participating in any leagues, maybe they still want the option to choose if they will use antilag or not? Also it would be nice if other leagues could make their own decision about this, for their league. The European Quake League might not have the greatest need for antilag, but maybe the Transatlantic Quake League might?

Why does it have to be on vs off?


If you are talking about mix-games, I doubt there will be more fighting over this than with maps, teams, teamoverlay. While league games will be handled by league rules, I don't see the problem really.

Antilag off better here?


Antilag off better here?

Sounds to me like you're saying antilag has a quite narrow range of pings where it's acceptable, and is not the silver bullet that many of the people blindly accepting it think it is? 13ms vs. 51ms. is certainly not uncommon for non-league games since people won't bother with picking server based on closest ping difference there. Sounds like it's better off for non-league games at least?


He was just pointing out a problem in your argument. Can't see a problem with that. If he hadn't done it, I probably would.

#51 thx for the answers

Antilag isn't, the rules about it's usage is. Currently you allow (you are EQL staff last time I checked, right?) antilag, even recommend it.



Antilag setting is still there, if it is required.


Very simple reason, you should be able to figure out too. If you play with antilag enabled for a long enough time on some server, you will soon notice that you don't want to play it disabled on that same server, especially if you have 38ms ping there. Now if league won't allow antilag but it has been on otherwise, people using antilag will have some trouble since they might have gotten used to it. This is something to be avoided, so enabled for everyone, or then disabled.



Every now and then when I'm playing 2on2, someone starts fighting over teamoverlay and sometimes it makes players actually leave the server.

Nope, but 51ms player is still in the worse position due to knockback/etc lag effects


Nope, but again, 64ms player will be in worse position. The difference is smaller though than in the example above.


As antilag doesn't fix movement/kickback problems, it's not a solution for games that have big ping difference, like 13ms vs 100ms. Also when it comes to leagues, their rules usually state that very similar ping should be used between the players. This makes usage of antilag good, since the ping differences are not that big and you shouldn't bump into a "bad situation".


EDIT: updated reply a bit

since i just quoted your text, shouldn't you be rule 5'd too? because you personally insulted yourself then

You talking about taking responsibility?

Oh, so it wasn't secretly enabled like before or in the middle of an ongoing EQL tournament? Like you care.

So that's what you decided. How come there wasn't made a sv_makeantilagtoggleable 0/1 to let the server admin decide for himself?