Hi all

I am very close to relaunching the NQR ladder. I would like to run 2on2 and 4on4 ladders over the summer months to cover those who want to retain some level of activity.

Both ladders will run until 31st August, and there will be a short play-off competition in early September for the top clans (structure TBC depending on number of clans).

I want both ladders to include plenty of custom maps. Here's where I need your help. Currently, the map list for the 4on4 ladder stands at:

DM2, DM3, DM6 (DMM3)
E1M2, E1M3, E1M5, E1M6
E2M1, E2M2, E2M7
E3M1, E3M2, E3M3, E3M6, E3M7
E1M3TDM, E1M5TDM, E1M6TDM, E2M2TDM, E2M7TDM, E3M3TDMb, E3M6TDM, E3M7TDM, E4M3TDM
CMT1B, CMT2, CMT3, CMT4, CMT5B
GRIM, RUINS, SCHLOSS, SKTEAM, UKCLDM2, UKPAK2, NAUGHTY, RWILD, Q1ANNI-BETA3

What others should be included?

And how about 2on2? The obvious ones are DM4 & DM6 with powerups off, plus DM2, ZTNDM3 and AEROWALK with powerups on. There is even bigger scope for custom maps in 2on2. Here are some that spring to mind:
A2, PKEG, ZTNDM4, ZTNDM5, DM4ISH, DM2BACK :E, UKOOLDM4, DOOMED...

What else?

Another issue that springs to mind is the system for selecting decider maps. Previously, clans could choose any map from the pool for the first 2 rounds. If a decider map was required, the clans would each toss one map from TB3 and then play the remaining map.

However, I wonder if people would enjoy some "enforcement" :E here. What I mean is, instead of eliminating or choosing a decider map, clans would be forced to play on a certain map for deciders depending on the week. So, in week 1 it might be DM3, week 2 E1M2 but then it week 3 it could be SCHLOSS or something like that. Please let me hear your thoughts...

That enforcement seems fun
I wish I could play on that bay-12.bsp at last! And how about that new dm2 version made by Muffin?

4on4 ladder: I will help you if needed. EQLadder never really got going, first it was very low activity and then it was never relaunched *nods at Zalon*

I think the idea with forced deciders is good, could make some clans play a map they havent played before.
On the other hand they could skip playing on certain weeks if they really hate the decider


2on2 I dont know so much about.

Always nice with something "not-so-serious" to run along in the summer, so you could play some whenever the weather is bad or you got nothing else you wanna do. Would including a 1on1 ladder be too much to ask for as well? Could probably help out with that if help is wanted / needed to get that to happen. The map pool looks really massive as well. Dunno if its a good or bad thing, tho... Great initiative nontheless

**edit: just to give my opinion on what you actually asked for: I think the map pool looks impressive enough as it is. If anything, use a map created by someone still active and around in the scene as a show of appreciation or whatever. The enforcement of decider which changes for each week seems like a great idea. I must really say I'm curious on how often it would happen that two teams have 4 players online at the same time during the summer, and that maybe 1on1 & 2on2 would be more successful duo in terms of games played. But sure, everyone loves 4on4, so I understand it would be very unnatural to exclude it. Maybe some teams just need to merge and maybe allow a quite big numbers of players in each team could help?

And, is there seperate teams for the 2on2 & 4on4 ladder, or is the same team used for both the 2on2 and 4on4?

**edit2: I've always wondered why DM6 2on2 was without ring. Such a great powerup! Also forces a team that always camp ra to come out and change their phase slightly at least once during the game. DM4 without quad kinda the same.. It's not more overpowering than quad on any other lg map (a2, aero, ztn f.ex)? On dm4 you always have good "cs" oppertunities as well, with back to a wall / exit, and not several entries to your position and attack possibilities like aero & ztn has.

In the previous NQR summer ladder six(?) years ago, we suffered one round of e4m6 or something stupid like that. After that we always checked beforehand what the opponent wanted to play and if we didn't like it, no game.

So I don't think any enforcement will work when you can just choose to not play.

Definately this map for 2on2! http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=61731#p61731

Haha dm2back is sick, it makes you bit crazy. Dm4back is too sick though, instant headache when you load that map. Not really fan of those ish-maps like dm4ish. Doomed feels like it has too much corridors for my taste and too small rooms. Pkeg1 instead of pkeg please!

4on4 maplist looks nice! How will you set the rules for decider?

1on1 ladder: good idea. I will see if I can hax0r the website code to account for this. At the moment it's very easy to make different ladders for team modes but it's a bit harder for 1on1.
1on1 map pool? TB5 + SKULL RWILD RF2 DOOMED for a start... then you could think about adding some of the smaller 2on2 maps mentioned above - CTL1 for example, but also PKEG1, UKOOLDM4, ZTNDM4/5 etc. Any others?

2on2/4on4: these would be separate ladders, and in the previous 2on2 ladder run by NQR, you could enter any number of players you wanted and then use any of those players in a game. The only restriction was that you couldn't swap players mid-match - the same 2 had to play all 2 or 3 maps.

Regarding powerup settings, I guess you could also have in the rules that the team choosing the map can pick the settings according to their preference. So, they could play DM6 with or without ring.

I'll make a note to include CTL1 and Muffin's DM2 remix. The more maps the better, in my opinion. It's less of an issue for the 2on2 ladder anyway.

Ring is flawed because it's so much easier to see with ugly settings like drawflat. Worst powerup ever!


Dropquad makes even dm4 fun!

+enraged for 4on4
+doomed +vdm3v3 +dad2 +ultrav for 2on2

Please have a look at jokeydm3.bsp. I agree with the poster above who said that the "back"maps are crazy and really make you hurt your brain. I can't imagine playing that for 20 minutes (playing 2on2 with you was tough already ). jokeydm3 has a lot of potential as it probably plays like dm3 but adds a few elements (incl. jumps/skills).

Generally I'm open for all sort of maps, episode as well as custom maps. Though, I can't say I'll like it

> 2on2
> A2, PKEG, ZTNDM4, ZTNDM5, DM4ISH, DM2BACK :E, UKOOLDM4, DOOMED...
PKEG1 instead of PKEG
ZTNDM6 instead of ZTNDM5 (ztn5 will be controlled so easy)
Add ztndm2
Add dm3 and e1m2 with powerups?
Add sacredb2
And remove DM4ISH and DM2BACK .

what great news! hmm, some of Tiddles' maps could be nice in 4on4 and 2on2. also for 2on2 i enjoyed some of the RGB maps, green and red i think. will post more as i remember them.

I would personally like to see tb3 + the 2 maps that will be added to eql14 as the only maps in the ladder, perhaps top4-5 of the voted maps.
But that means eql admins have to get the voting started first.

definitely add doomed for 2on2

Yep. Wide map pool only when both clans want. You wont be able to force anyone to play weird maps. The games will either not happen or turn into fiasco. Previous seasons there was like 2 clans who played kenya matches against each other and everything else was tb3.

I think this league is intented to be focussed on custom maps. If you don't like it, don't sign up and spend your summer playing tb3 with others who don't like the idea of trying something new and wait for EQL14 which will clearly focus on tb3 again.

As long as tb3 are in the map pool it will not be focused on kenya. And without tb3 you'd risk not having enough teams.

Making a tournament with custom maps is a good thing. Taking qw players out of their comfort zone. I think the results from each map(match) can be very interesting. Predicting results might be a bit harder.

Here is the last successful ladder (2006), if you want to see the map pool and what was actually played. Might be hard to find the kenya rounds.

IIRC summer of 2005 there was a real custom maps tournament and it failed with a lot of WOs.

Was it only 4on4?

There were 2on2 ladders too. But 2on2 and 4on4 was never combined. Each was its own ladder.

I'm just chucking a random idea out there, but what about somehow using the scoring system to reward a team more for picking a non-tb3 map? However this could make teams focus purely on praccing one kenya map, for better or worse. Maybe have extra 'encouragement' points for the first time you play a new map? That could be getting too complicated though.

Or as andy just suggested to me on irc - you could score more for winning a kenya map that your opponents chose. Edit: but I guess that wouldn't encourage the choosing team.

Maybe have a bonus achievement points for playing 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% of the map pool?

It's a dilemna if you want it to be more of a casual league, but also want to try to get more custom maps played which I guess some people just won't agree with.

Btw gaz, can clans start to sign up?
I signed csn up anyway since it worked

I guess that's a question of how you define "enough". Let's say you get 10 teams that want to play custom maps, sign up and willingly play all their games. Now you also get 10 other teams that sign up because tb3 are "also somehow included", and are pissed off because Kenya maps are also played all the time and divulge their bad mood because they're not happy with the map pool

I've no intention of not including tb3. This ladder is not intended to be a custom map ladder - however I want it to include custom maps for those who want to play them.

So, my current thinking is that I'll forget the "enforced decider" idea and fall back on the TB3 elimination method, with the added clause that clans can play any map they want as long as they agree. That way, if two clans want to play three custom maps, they can do so.

The points system is pretty much fixed, as much because it's hard-coded into the website as anything else

Yeah sounds good. So is it going to start asap?

Ladders are now live:

http://nqr.quakeworld.nu/ladder/

Everything should work OK on the websites but please let me know if not. Manny is working on some logos for the new seasons

The map pools are deliberately big and inclusive - please let me know if you'd like to see any others in there. I have left the issue of decider maps open, so that clans that agree can play on any map they want, whereas those who don't can default to the old TB3 (or TB5 for 2on2) elimination method.

These ladders will run for the next 4 months (until the end of August), and will be followed by a play-off competition if activity is high enough. Go frag!

I will start working on the set-up for a 1on1 ladder next...

Good news, lets make sure to spam this alot @ irc so noone misses the action

Btw, perhaps change the logo? It still reads "Season 3" *oops, missed a line in gaz's post*

read my post

edit: re spamming, can someone get this on ESreality?