This is why new players arent coming. Because its ridiculous. How do you expect us to play like this? In fact i wasnt the only one even today. Another player was being spawncamped, taking punishment by this wallhacker just before me(26 june ~0300 GMT), and wisely left the server. Me being a dumbass stayed and got spawncamped + probably aimbotted for 20 minutes. Anyway, fortunately i got some footage of the cheater so appropriate action can be taken.
http://www.multiupload.com/R1APD80QEJ

Sorry, but no. Zombie has been a very highly skilled player for over a decade now, capable of taking duels from even the best players. You simply got rolled on a map you don't know by someone with ten thousand hours of quakeworld experience on you. This is not uncommon in quakeworld.

I think people underestimate how good some experienced quakeworld players are and how fast the game really is.
As Stev says: It's pretty obvious that he is experienced and that you are pretty new to the game.

You could try play vs Milton and see if there is any difference, and I can assure you he will rape you even harder
and 110% guaranteed not cheating.

EDIT: On the other hand one can discuss the fun from his side raping beginners.. That's a bit more low

"Unfortunately" this is quakeworld. The first 6 months like that, then you can have some success...

Checked the demo(got a headache from that fuckin' high sense). And to defend Zombie, it happened on Xs4all FFA(!) server, and it is far from real rape. Zombie even left the quad to the guy. And zombie ws the one who left the server 'cause of the boring match, meanwhile the guy typed msgs like "nerd", "noob" etc. there's no more depressive thing when someone calls you "cheater" just because he has lower skill than you have.

As usual, the issue of experiences players raping newbies on FFA servers has been already discussed. And as usual, nothing has been done ofc. And you're surprised noone new comes to the game.

There's a 'normal' and a rookie ffa xs4all server. It happened on the 'normal' one...

Interesting, i wasn't aware of this but seems you're right. The IP to the rookie server is quake.xs4all.nl:27502. Guess we should make sure to at least spread that one aswell to new players.

He have 30 pl usually, his pl become lower only at late night-early morning when noone is arround. I guess there was noone else out there, im sure Zombie doesnt like raping noobs that much, he just didnt have other opponent.

Actually this is the proof of my theory, wich is this: noobs will start the game on x4ffa, just as nandnor did. So adding more maps to the 4on4 eql pool wont get more newbies to the scene. be reasonable, put aside your personal victory pls XD.(leave the lightning gun alone, dont fakk its ammo or its damage...) Adding new maps to x4ffa can help btw. my few suggestion how can we get more players are theese: 1. change map when it is overcrowded(dm4 with 16 player is not fun), Add some big maps in that case, like cmt1b. 2. some greeting message should direct the newbies here(qw.nu), or the ffa rookie server, when they enter the game. Keep playing Nandnor, see ya on the servers. BTW Ake, it wont work, cos players automatically join to x4ffa, and a noob wont go to an empty server(his browser shows the servers with players probably)

Not from day 1, but then give the players the IP to both the regular xs4all FFA server aswell as the rookie one so they are at least aware of its existence.

Like others already said, this is how QW works. You, being low-skilled beginner, won't have a chance against even "a regular" and "average skilled" player in QW (especially in duel, even though the server is FFA with only two players) in a year or maybe in two. If you just play FFA then it will take more time than that most likely.

The worst thing is you coming to this forum complaining and accusing other player who has done basically nothing wrong (other than actually played on a server, WITHOUT cheating). Instead you yourself were shitacting by typing insults and other other childish flooding like "easy", "noob" and "scared" and then you demand appropriate action?

There's nothing like a personal victory in this case, I'd rather have a victory for the scene in overall. That's one.
Two: something may have to be done in the future with some aspects of the game due to the changes the game has experienced. At least, some of the modes like duels dor example (not implying the lower lg damage: the others solutions - like increased damage of the rest of the weapons - are also welcome for discussion)
Last but not least: if introducing new maps may not necessarily brong new players, perhaps it would at least partially stop the process of quiting the game for some. The playerbase grows thinner every year and that's a fact. And noone will ever concince me that it is mainly to real-life reasons. The game is too conservative these days and society doesnt welcome changes. Which eventually will result in demise of the game. I can bet on that.
I'd rather have this as a new incentive to intruduce changes into QW to keep the scene alive and bring new blood into it.

I think there are 2 possible options now:

1.Nandnor can admit here that he was wrong, misunderstood some concepts of the game which is no shame since he's new (and who has never thought the opponent cheated on you when you were outskilled in your early days?) and didn't know what is possible with experience and knowledge. That would be a decent move which (I'm sure) most likely everyone will respect and guide the player into the right direction into how to improve his play (some already gave a few suggestions).

2. Acknowledge he was wrong for himself, leave the forums and the game silently and never come back.

1 would be cooler!

Uhm, while I often criticize lots of "disbalance" in QW, the game not being friendly to newcomers and what not, I don't think that getting raped when you are a rookie and play against someone experienced is somehow "specific to QW".

Play any game, not even a computer game, against someone who plays that game for years and guess what - you gonna get owned badly. Question is only how much chances you get to actually pose a threat, do some not-completely-innocent damage, or surprise the enemy a little. But inevitably you will lose by a great great margin.

The 'newbie' server is empty around 95% of the time, I've thought a few times just to drop it.

put the adress to the rookie server in the MOTD for the regular server. or create a alias (serverside?) to send people to the rookie port ie. "type rookie in console for the rookie server".

i'm glad the newbie server is still running but it needs some help to get running. could be a great training ground for newer players.

There was (is?) already a discussion about bots on the FFA servers. That should be solution, not MOTD or whatever message...

When there's one 'big' ffa server, you're gonna get all sorts of players on it - I returned to QW last autumn, and it took me a couple of months on the bottom of the list before I got the hang. As JohnNy_cz says, "Play any game, not even a computer game, against someone who plays that game for years and guess what - you gonna get owned badly."

For me, a lot of the fun of QW is to keep trying, never giving up, and finally getting results - and still finding you're a easy target. More to learn!


Edit: By the way, Zombie is not cheating. Of course

Zombie is no cheater. I watched your demo. You went for quad, which is lame when there's just 2 ppl playing. Trust me, Zombie toyed with you, and did not take quad himself. Except when you shot him and he fell against it.
You can't yet move very well so DON'T try to bunny/strafejump, 'cuase you're making too much noise and give away your location to the opponent. Better not bunnyhop at all for now.


Here comes the Uncle Mega rant:

I remember playing Quake against my roommate who wasn't very good because I played much more then he did. Still, I just walked around the map, hoping to find him. When I'd stumble on Red Armor, I was pleased and thought: 'Ha! RA, great!!!'.

This is not how ppl play anymore. It won't work. These days, it's item timing, tactical camping.... and for some, just camping. The players have weapon scripts, 500hz mouses, etc. Basicly, they've taken the game to seriously and if you want to play against them, unfortunately, you gotta do the same and spend some time on it. But YES, they've ruined Quake for the average Joe, they certainly did. And therefore 'Joe' is gonna play easier games. At least that's what will probably happen most often.

When I came to quakeworld online (aside from a few ping 400 moments in the past and my prive LAN experience) in around 2005 and I couldn't do ANYTHING. I spawned and died. And I played with a vertical mouse (hehe). So what did I do? I spectated good players who would win in FFA. I remember seeing Batfink/Gibbs for the first time... holy freaking shit. I did NOT however accused him for cheating. Probably because I already knew about the pro players in the Q3 scene and watching Fatality demos. So when those good players arrived on the server, I went speccing and recorded the matches of those good players (I got a nice FFA archive) and began to look at WHY certain ppl won, and I started to learn the maps, and practice against bots to try to do the same thing as those good players did (mapcontrol, having at least some half decent skills, which you don't have yet). I recommend to at least be able to beat Frogbot lvl10 with total ease on all xs4all maps before expecting to have fun on the xs4all FFA server. And try not to miss Quad, because good human players never forget to take it. I need to remind myself of that too

So speccing and recording demos is fine, but instead of accusing ppl for cheating, try to analyze the demos and ask yourself WHY they win. You got to work your way up to having fun online (unfortunately), QW is not just a game to 'try' online, unless you play 1on1 against a evenly skilled player perhaps.

It takes time to get any good. And a half decent computer setup. I probably have some of the oldest (AGP) setups around in QW, but even at that stable 77 fps I can still do pretty well in FFA and am now able to give those decent players a pretty hard time in lots of maps (despite their 100x better hardware).

And for the record: Zombie is an online buddy of mine in FFA, and he does NOT cheat. That said, there IS a high ping cheater online very regularly these days with an aimbot. He has ping > 200.

Nandor you need a firm slap and a good soapy mouth wash.
I haven't seen the demo (CBA) but calling zombie a cheater and whining your bits off like that...... you should be ashamed of yourself.
Zombie is one of good guys.

You should go play scrabble.
Amazing, the attitude.
Coming in a game you apparantly dont know, with players you dont know and then starting to whine/cry/yell AND accusing for no reason at all, spitting on one and then running to mummy to do your whining complaints.
You know what?
Don't go play scrabble. I don't want to accidentally meet you there.

lady! inside voice

It's the same old theme since 1996.

How's that? Back then ppl played totally different and there were no game clocks to time items. On top of that, quake was THE ONLY game you could play online. Players couldn't go to another game as they can do now if Quake is too hard

I think this thread is a good occasion to write what I've been willing to write for a couple of days now.

Allow me to give a little background about myself. As far as QW is concerned I am an "on/off" player. I install QW, I play for a while, I uninstall it and play some other games, I return to QW, leave it again, etc. etc. I've been doing so with many Quakes as I am a fan of the series as a whole and once I get bored with one I jump to another. When it comes to online play I think I spent most of my time playing various versions of Q3 (OSP / CPMA / Quake Live).

What I'm driving at is that:
- I am an "eternal QW rookie"
- I have some understanding of "quake multiplayer" in general

Whenever I return I must learn everything from scratch, especially QW's console commands and I must tell you that it's really hard for a rookie to find this information. Sure, I can ask on #qwrookie and the guys there are very willing to help, but sometimes it happens that everyone is AFK and I CBA to stay on IRC for hours waiting for someone to show up.

So this time I decided to search on my own and after a while I actually found a website containing some basic config tweaks. The site is: http://fquake.sourceforge.net/getstarted.html and I found the link on the QW wiki site, though it took me a while, as I tried visiting the rookie's forum first and doing some google search. Perhaps I asked the wrong questions.

It certainly took me longer than most would care. After all, who wants to spend hours on searching for the proper console commands instead of playing? Perhaps I look incompetent in your eyes, but I guarantee that many other newbies would have that problem. We haven't been "in the business" for years like you guys. We don't navigate through sites with an ease equal to yours. Sometimes we don't even know what to look for. I doubt I would know about the existence of bright skins, were it not for my experience with other Quake games and you must agree that making your opponent as visible as possible is a VITAL setting.

Also - If I hadn't clicked this thread, I wouldn't have even known that there is a dedicated rookie FFA server! I learned it just today via this thread!

But like I said, the first place for me to visit was the rookie forum and I think many people do it as well. There are only TWO stickies there. One containing the manifesto, and one containing the guide to 4on4. It's great that you stickied those threads, but I'm willing to bet a a lot, that the majority of rookies would rather learn how to set the brightskins / configure the mouse and weapon settings / know where to even start (the rookie server) than to read right away about the most demanding mode of them all (as I was recently informed on one of the servers).

So for the sake of myself and other rookies. Please make a sticky in the rookie forum for beginners containing such information as:
- a guide to some crucial config settings (I think that http://fquake.sourceforge.net/getstarted.html is great, perhaps there are some better guide, I don't know)
- information about the rookie server - as someone proposed earlier
- a direct link to challenge-tv.com
- other basic info: armor and powerup timings / what maps are popular for particular modes etc.

Sure, you can answer with "it's all in the wiki", but take two things into account:
1. Wiki makes sense only when you KNOW what you're searching for
2. An average gamer has a VERY limited attention span. If I have to use my time and energy just to look for information on how to configure the damn game, I will go play something else.

I assume some of you are familiar with Quake Live as well. They also have some beginners' forum, which contains a stickied thread with a Quake Live guide inside. Its layout is very clear, with table of contents and everything and it covers all the basic information a rookie would like to know and even more. I think it's one of the most commonly viewed threads on the entire board. Think about it.

P.S.
I want you to take the above information as a "point of view of a rookie". Don't treat it like an attack, I want to help. The QW community is AWESOME and everyone so far has been very helpful to me. Giving me tips and words of encouragement after each duel where I end up in "double negative". I don't think anyone so far laughed at my poor level of play, and sure, I have no doubts that some assholes are out there, but for the time being I'm glad to say that this atmosphere alone is worth playing, regardless of how much I get my ass kicked. Please consider my advice so other players may experience the atmosphere as well!

Your points are all very valid and make sense. That being said, I think there are very few games in which each remaining player has added so much to the game. Be it active modding, graphical enhancements, wise hints in the forum, writing guides, hosting websites, running/administering leagues, running servers, testing new features, introducing the game to new players, commentating on live games, analyzing famous demos and hosting them publically (youtube or whatever), writing league predictions/drama stuff and a lot more. Go through the list of active players and 99% of them have added positively to the game in one way or another. As you just said the qw scene is "awesome" and generally very helpful.
Most had to learn the game the "hard way", which means the information was widely spread, if not kept secretly. It had never been easier to get into the game than it is now, and on the same hand it was never tougher because the competition is incredibly strong.

Trust me, there have been many attempts at getting rookies attracted to QW, I would even go that far and say that a lot you are experiencing and like about QW had once been initiated to postpone qw's inevitable decline and make the game newbie friendlier, self-explanatory as well as "organised".
Anyway, as I said, your suggestions make sense as I wrote above, but it is difficult to deviate actual needs from these (especially pro-actively ).

Sure, I just wanted to say what I found problematic, when trying to get back into the game a couple of days ago. I mean, I was on the verge of giving up before I even joined a server! Configuration is important to me, and looking for all the necessary console commands is tiring (yet again I'd like to thank guys from #qwrookie! )

HOWEVER, I am aware that my problems aren't the MAIN problems why people don't want to play the game. Let's be honest: at the end of the day, when all is said and done, you still have to practice for hours / days / months, perhaps more, to pose ANY sort of threat to an AVERAGE QW player nowadays. It's a hard game, one of the hardest I have encountered ever, and certainly THE hardest when it comes to the FPS genre. People don't like hard games and we can't blame them really. After all, for most people a game is a game. A leisure activity meant to relax, not to cause frustration. Like I said - I switch Quake games depending on the level of boredom etc. I don't practice with obliterating Milton as my goal

Then again, I agree with what was said earlier - back in 1996, when there was no alternative, people somehow managed to learn the game Certainly the level was a lot lower, but it required a lot more skill than many contemporary shooters anyway.

Look at the total top of this page and you'll see icons that are direct links to several QW pages. One of them is Challenge-TV.

The item timings are ofc quite easy to see for yourself by looking at your gameclock.

Good points for the rest. I didn't know about weapon scripts for years myself

Oh and just ask someone's .cfg and you'll learn a lot from looking at it.

I know it is there. It's even in the "links" section in nquake's start menu entry. I'm just saying what I'd like to see "in one place" if such a thread was to be created.

What do you mean by gameclock? The match time countdown? I was talking about information specific for given items. 20s for RA, 60s for quad, etc. etc.

As for the weapon scripts I always thought the players were changing the weapons MANUALLY all the time And they NEVER made mistakes. Then ezQuake came and taught me about preselect, weaponhide, etc.

All Swedes were cheaters back then!
Check out Paul2s' Quake Mental Hospital for some thoughtfully spelled out evidence of that:

http://methosq.com/qmh.htm

Yeah, that would be easier.


Well, yes, the match time countdown (or up, depending how you configure it). All you need to do after you've taken an item is check the current time (gameclock) and the time on which the item re-spawns. Then you'll know the timing of, for instance, RA.


Eh... hehe: preselect is not what you wanna use. What I meant by weapon scripts, which all decent players use these days, is something like this:
===========================================
alias +rocketlauncher "impulse 7 5 3 4 2 1; +attack"
alias -rocketlauncher "-attack"
bind MOUSE1 "+rocketlauncher"
===========================================

Now to break that down for you: when I press mouse1 I instantly select AND fire the RL if I have it and if there's ammo. If I don't have that, I instantly select and fire the next weapon (SNG) I've defined in that impulse script. Etc. This way you'll need just 2 or 3 keys to play online.

I have binds to more then that though, here are my other weapon aliases:

alias +boomstick "impulse 2 1; +attack"
alias -boomstick "-attack"
alias +grenadelauncher "impulse 6 3 2 1; +attack"
alias -grenadelauncher "-attack"
alias +shaft "impulse 8 5 3 4 2; +attack"
alias -shaft "-attack"
alias +supernailgun "impulse 5 4 3 2 1; +attack"
alias -supernailgun "-attack"
alias +supershotgun "impulse 3 5 2 1; +attack"
alias -supershotgun "-attack"

It's this sort of stuff that makes QW so much more interesting then the other Quake games (I've bought and played them all). The RL (rocketlauncher) does splash damage to yourself too when your target is too close, so you need a 'SAFE' script too which fires all the non-self-damage weapons. Basicly, that's my +shaft alias. But....when I'm underwater, I don't wanna electrocute myself, so I use my +supernailgun alias

Bind those to your fav keys and you'll be able to select & fire as fast as a Frogbot

And yes, it totally sucks how this stuff is not all in one place. In fact, after ppl told me about it, I've typed this over and over on this forum and tried to explain it to new players in-game. Which is a hassle since they often don't know shit or think they already know about quake.

Also: this stuff doesn't work in all Quake clients, but it does work in all QuakeWorld clients as far as I know. Yes, Q1 and QW is not the same and you shouldn't throw them together in the same folder imo.