It's the exact same thing with banks. No bank could give peoples' deposits back either. Central bank is the only bank that can really create new money and thus increase the upper limit of money supply. With normal banks it's just a figure of speech to say that they "create money". It's more accurate to think that they jus create debt and illusion of money (i.e. increase money supply). Normal banks can make the money supply to fluctuate and in the extreme case to rise to the 1:10 ceiling, but only the central bank can raise the ceiling itself.

What you say about interest is true though. In the world there is always more debt than money. I guess that's what keeps the wheels turning. You have to remember that inflation will reduce the value of the debt with time, etc. It is quite complicated of course, but just because it's hard to grasp doesn't mean it's inherently bad.

Even without FRB, the banks would still ask interest for any loan. There is simply no point in giving loans without pay. They would accumulate wealth and power, just the same. The central bank would probably just have to create money at faster rate, because it's effect on money supply would be 1:1 instead of 1:10. The problem is not FRB. The problem is if the central bank is in private ownership and uses it's tools of increasing / decreasing money supply to blackmail government and gain profit, instead of stablizing the economy.

The problem is not debt itself, the problem is if the government is in debt for private bank.

Imagine if all debts would be forgiven today. For a day everyone would be happy. But tomorrow someone would think "hmm, I want to buy a house but I dont have enough cash". So he would ask someone to borrow him money. That someone would say ok, but because it's risky I want you to pay back a bit more than you borrow. And so it would all just start all over again.

I'm not saying this is the way it needs to be, but unless someone has a better solution there's no point complaining.

Let's say that we have a new bank with no deposits. Then you go there and deposit $1000. The bank then loans $909 forward. The next day you go there and ask your $1000 back. But they just can't pay it to you! They have already "created" all they could create by loaning those $909 the day before. That's it. They're fucked and you break their legs.

(Now, if the society bails the bank out before you break their legs that's another thing altogether. But it has nothing to do with FRB.)

If you still insist that fractional rb is the problem, then please explain with examples how full reserve banking would change anything.

Wouldn't it be better when governments would NEVER have to be bank-dependent to get money? Governments should issue their OWN money and the banks are just banks then. Not our master.

Better is to get rid of the money system completely because no monetary system has ever 'survived'. You can even go further and ask yourself why you'd pay for anything when people could, theoretically, provide eachother with what they need. Like the people at Occupy Wallstreet are doing currently.

Well, you are certainly not the first to have that idea. Just doesn't work beyond small communities.

Maybe some tribes or religious communities would be a better example than Occupy Wallstreet. I doubt the latter could provide for each other for very long if left to their own devices.

Yeah! Lets see how many power plants, hospitals, schools and police/fire stations would be provided by random ppl while just using labor and exchange favors...

Well those would just be private hospitals/schools etc.

But anyway, look at the cost of having infrastructure+hospitals+fire+police but you take away all the money government has to spend on interest on foreign/domestic loans or big bailouts and there might be a lot more leftover for better service/life quality for the citizens. It doesn't have to be one or the other imo. Some things are good for government to handle a larger society, but that doesn't mean it should enslave us, it should be service for us, like banks should be. That might force us to not live as extravagant as before when we could take endless of luxery loans, but that isn't so bad, since chance of crash'n'burn on those loans is lower.

#156
No there wouldnt be any of those and hundreds of more services and production facilities without any form of currency system as megalodon suggested.
The soceity would be extremely rural bordering hunter & gatherer status if we just traded work and favors.

I agree with the second part tho. But though you must realize that ppl/businesses/governments must loan money NOW to buy things and pay with future income...
A country cant invest in a government owned iron ore mine without substantial amounts of money, so you loan it and pay back when you sell the iron.

Sadly, we are too bank dependant and must bail them out when shit go wrong. I agree that this isnt very good.

Yes, probably.


That's just naive and would never work. What if I need a doctor but he doesn't need anything from me? When I pay him with money, he can use it on anything he wants. An intermediary like money is absolutely necessary. I think the basic principles of our monetary system have survived just fine for hundreds of years, if not more. It's the thing before that, that didn't.

You know why it 'doesn't work' ??? Ever bothered to question this? There are indeed communities like this and once they become too big so that it could be a threat to the establishment, someone creates a little bullshit law that makes what the community is doing ILLEGAL. I watched a movie about Willem Middelkoop (who's explained the economic problems in The Netherlands) giving a lecture in which this is mentioned by one of the guests, but it's in Dutch.

Anyone who's a threat to the way we are 'supposed to live' in modern society will get a certain 'treatment'. Whether it's an alternative to money, an alternative energy source: you'll get the treatment.
Examples: Stan Meyer and his hydro car: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stan+meyer+hydro&aq=f
or
Nicola Tesla and his awesome work which almost got buried if it wasn't for the internet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMhAIdqH0Cs&feature=related

A nice youtube comment:

Or a revisionist of history, like Ernst Zundel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j980UA_5QN0&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=37&feature=plpp_video

Basicly anything or anyone who can provide a different, important, view on important events or problems that might be a threat to the 'establishment' WILL get the treatment. You'll be painted as a nutcase, erased from history or worse.

Despite the free energy inventions are passed of as 'not working', the USA military industry is always VERY interested in it.

In Germany, when you question the Holocaust, you'll be marked or even go to jail. Now where did we see that before? Ah...9/11, USA anyone? If you question something you're not 'patriotic'?

Let's all just trust the banking elite, they know what's best for us. Right?

Not to pin this shit on all average Jews, but if you check out Jewish Zionism, a lot of pieces of the puzzle seem to fall into place.

Check this out:
Fred Leuchter on Holocaust: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7Y7pAMtFk&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=34&feature=plpp_video

DrDuke knows how to shed light on Jewish Zionist agenda:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJjSzXkm55o&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=39&feature=plpp_video

Again, Ernst Zundel, such an impressive man that almost completely goes unnoticed by most ppl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j980UA_5QN0&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=37&feature=plpp_video

I emailed his wife and they're not even allowed to live in the same country!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRo-jp6EzJA&feature=autoplay&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&lf=plpp_video&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGATDr0cDfI&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=36&feature=plpp_video

The great thing about a great conspiracy is that you can explain everything with a great conspiracy.

If you want to discuss Mr.Leuchter, Mr.Zundel and the likes then i suggest you start another thread before we wander off too far away from the banking system/crisis. I bet that would be an interesting thread aswell seeing as they present "evidence" that they've pulled out of their ass in those videos, just like in many other Youtube videos in this thread.

FFS Ake Vader, talking about ass: it's ppl like you who have their heads far up your asses! It's all related! That's why I'm posting it!!! It's relevant!

At least take the time to learn about those people and really listen to what they have to say. Their arguments sound more sane then those of USA presidents or any politicians for that matter. And more sane then average mainstream journalists who can only write what they know off in front will be published. You're in no position to tell me or them that they're talking out of their ass! This guy's house is being bombed, set on fire, and he's been jailed multiple times for telling what he does, so apparently some people out there think it's pretty important stuff and not some meaningless bullshit. That makes sense, otherwise he wouldn't be treated like this. Think about that instead of giving your ignorant attitude as administrator.

Look at how your Swedish Assange is being treated when releasing some cables - it's all related, it's all the same treatment these people get, as I already said. This is serious. It's about freedom of speech or rather the lack of it. How can a brave person like Assange come from the same country as ignorant people like you who can't even see the relevance of these matters. It's crazy. Such a crap attitude. You really think you're gonna learn anything by just ignoring the other side of the story? Blocking out the other side of the fence?
People like yourself are actually supporting this shit that is happening in the world and to those people by posting your ignorant comments. I'm dead serious when I say that. Every time you try to stop somebody from posting this you support the people who have more blood on their hands then any criminal you've ever heard of.

Like I said, I actually took the time to email Zundels' wife and I've taken the time to actually listen to all these people I've mentioned instead of instantly posting comments like they 'got it out of their ass' like you do without taking the time to listen. I can't even pay Zundels' Wife via PayPal because it's a Jew company that won't pay her. Same as Assange story, remember? It's difficult for these people to get donations because the banking elite scum makes sure they won't get paid while it totally shouldn't be their business. The bank companies should be neutral but they aren't. It's all about the same un-ethical banking elite Zionist fucks that control our governments and us. So it's relevant as hell.

You, or anyone else here, explain to me right now what exactly Zundel or Leuchter got out of his ass or how it's not related. If you can't explain, fine, but then at least don't tell me not to post this because it all ties in to the same Zionist/Globalist agenda which is all about global enslavement. People should be aware of this by now because it's obvious as hell. If you still can't see this, you have your head up your ass.

Edit: whatever.

#162 You should be careful about what you post. They are watching.

There is about as much difference between Assange and these people like there is a difference between an airplane and a cheescake.

Basically, people considered what Assange said to be true because it was easily verifiable that what he published is not made up. You look at the digitalized paper, you can see it's a paper made by the government or different state offices, you check the names, the dates and you can with high level of confidence say that Assange didn't make this up - he simply published what insiders gave him.

Compare this to that you believe this people are right because their house was bombed and their bank accounts blocked. How does this make anyones argument more strong? It doesn't. People don't trust Assange because there was a plot made of him being a rapist. Do you realize that?

Please don't compare Assange to conspiracy theorists. It doesn't work.

It is not 100% certain that the rape charges are a plot though. Just saying.

Assange is Australian btw.

Zundel is a history revisionist, not a theorist. None of the guys I've mentioned are theorists. Did you even bother to check them out?

The facts Zundel en Leuchter present state that there's NO indication whatsover that the gaschambers in Auswitz could have been used as gass chambers. There's also NO evidence whatsoever ANYWHERE that Hitler ever ordered gassing of Jews. None. Then why do they tell us this and why are people not allowed to question it?

Also: writer David Irvin supports Zundel's story and he actually interviewed people who worked with Hitler personally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6_bfmJPDAM&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=44&feature=plpp_video


And check out what this Jew, Allan Greenspan, from the Federal Reserve states at 05:20 at the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUY7o7pX6vk

So what he says there means that, the private bank institution that the USA has to borrow money from can simply do as they please and they don't have to obey any law of the country or do anything the president of the USA tells them to do. That's crazy!!! It's no conspiracy theory. It's a conspiracy fact. Those banksters are above the law. So there you got your fact. The guy from the FED itself is saying it right there.

Napoleon said: When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation.

This is so true. This is why it doesn't matter what people vote. Haven't you ever wondered why things don't change for the better? Why the power never goes back to us, the people? This is why.

Did you know there's not even a law in USA that states that an individual has to pay income tax? Look at all the creditable people here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r37Fm7paVjs&feature=related

That black woman, Sherry Peel Jackson, is jailed. Of course she is.

Anyway, I don't want to have a fight with people whom I otherwise like, incl. Ake Vader, so I guess I should stop posting. But don't say that Zundel or Leuchter is just another conspiracy theorist because they're not.

yea that guy has some substantial research on secret nazi ufos, hidden polar bases and hollow earth theory. don't want to throw him in with these crazy conspiracy nutjobs for sure!

Megalodon is completely right about everything. This is a transcript of a very important youtube video I saw. It's not there anymore cause the jews clearly did not want the public to get hold of this information......................................


Dr.Clueless:
The world is run by a jewish super elite opting to enslave the entire population. They won't stop until they have reached their ultimate goal: 7 billion people enslaved with a leash. Not just methapforically speaking but litterly a 100 yard long rope tied from your neck to a post inbetween your home and your designated workstation. I'll prove this today and also talk about the history behind it and why me must not allow them to complete their mega-jew-doom machine. Yes mega-jew-doom machine, scary thought isn't it?

Their experiments started with the weakest people of the population, the mentally ill. Strapping them to a bed or tie their arms together around their back and also, which turned out to be far more effective: using drugs on them. The substance tri-selatominophidexy (ts32xy) were first used to keep patients calm so caretakers could safely strap them to their bed. Later they realised this substance given in a mild dose had far better effects. This was first tried at St:Bellamore hospital in 1826 where psychiatrist Dr.C.Bärwald tried to get his patients into a submissive state. Some protests were made in the community, mainly lead by journalist Helen Jonson, who openly contested the methods used and Dr.C.Bärwalds intentions. Helen were fired and not seen in 4 years and when she finally reappeared stated 'i love jews' and went on to work as a jewish missionare. Something profoundly unthinkable due to her christian past.

DR.C.Bärwald was cousin to Steffen Larndauf, the founder of The Welschter Group (TWG). TWG was the only company permissioned to look after the health of the prisioners in US prisons. It had gotten this monopoly cause Steffens wife Greta Larndauf was sister to senator David Schottenstein, responsible minister at the US justice department 1828-1843 . They discussed possible benifits gained by treating the prisioners the same way Dr.Bärwald treated his patients. In 1835 a small dose of a slightly altered version of ts32xy were distributed in the priosioners coffee. Half the prisioners drank coffee and half didnt making coffee the perfect delivery device to see its effect on a large scale. In 1834 a mere 3% of the prisioners were jewish, but 3 years later this figure had risen to a staggering 35%. To their great surprise the coffee drinkers working in the factories outperformed their non coffee drinking counterparts by 700%. The coffee drinkers showed less interest in human interaction and could therefore work for longer periods of time and were far more susceptible to accepting their situation.

Things went quickly from here. Senator Schottenstein contacted his former college friend Jake Storch, a then Mayor in a US colony in Brasil. Storch iniated large scale coffee bean plantations and then went on to tour Europe with a sole mission: to increase coffee consumption in Europe. He became friends with several political leaders throughout Europe, offering great financial incitments for any country that showed an increased coffee consumtption. He was particulary successfull in the scandinavian countries where 85% of the adult population drank coffee. This is where they changed their masterplan from spreading the jewish religion worldwide to instead having the global population work to create the mega-jew-doom machine. Scandinavian countries had little to non jewish population and enslaving them through coffee consumption was easier and more benifitial to the mega-jew-doom machine than turning them into jews.
Some countries weren't fond of coffee and for those countries the ts32xy were instead supplied via the food helped by changing its name to fit into the vitamin scheme. Ts32xy became E-32 to resemble essential E-vitamins. In Sweden coffee drinking rituals have now replaced previously religious traditions, such as christening and you are expected to start drinking coffee at the age of 15.
The injection of ts32xy into the coffee beans were nearly discovered by a group of brittish hippies who had escaped their colonial duties in 1963 and settled on an unhabited island off the coast of Brasil. They had noticed the unproportional amount of coffee commercials in english newspaper sent to them by their relatives and gathered suspicions. In 1965 they decided to look into things at the coffee plantations but didnt find anything cause the previous year chemists and biotechnichians had found ways to genetically modify coffee to naturaly produce ts32xy.
In the 2000s Julian Assange is the only swede who do not drink coffee, a decision he's been harrassed for his entire life.


My advice for you today is don't work and don't drink coffee. Every job on the entire planet is there solely to complete the mega-jew-doom machine. Why do you think businesses go out of business? Businesses that previously had flourished now don't get a single order? It's because their services are no longer needed to fullfill the mega-jew-doom machine. If you're not working you're doing the right thing. Once the mega-jew-doom machine is finished there is no turning back. Keep yourself updated on the topic and trust noone, they're just trying to turn you into a piece fit into the mega-jew-doom machine.


Check out my other videos where I talk about how and why the jews chose to extinct dinasours and prehistoric monstersharks.



//

I have seen some poeple saying that Dr.Clueless is not a real doctor, has no phd, a questionable history and some say he doesnt even exist!! But Dr.Paranoids warned me about this in a youtube video that people would dismiss his opinions and even denigrate Dr.Clueless whole person. This video is not there anymore cause the jews deleted it.

//

You go to a Berlin square shout out Heil Hitler and you do the Hitler salute. You're arrested and sentenced to pay an 800€ fine. You do it again and get 1 month inprisonment. You give out books about how Hitler was a great man and start dressing like Hitler. You're sentenced to stop spreading this propaganda. You do it anyway so they prohibit you from running any business and freeze the bankaccount affilated with your publishing company. You put up a poster on your door 'I love Hitler'. Your neighbours who already hated to have a nazi neighbour openly show their disgust for you. The young teenagers in the buidling burns your mail twice and shred your posters.
which is more likely:
1.) You're on the right track to something very important and that every action against you is part of a 'global jew cover up plot'
or....
2.) You're a complete nutcase

lol

And that pretty much sums up this entire thread.

Just realized why tvs didn't get pracs.

The shallow mindedness here at qw is staggering. This newly registered coward doesn't even dare to debate me under his own nick. Sure shows his character and that he jokes about giving a Hitler salute proves my point of how brainwashed people still are.

If you people don't want to learn about Jewish Zionism and the Israeli Lobby so you'll understand better what's going on in the world, fine. Your choice. Do know that are are enough intelligent people who wrote books about this subject so I don't see how you can just think I'm just a 'nutcase' giving a Hitler salute: http://www.noontidepress.com/index.php?cPath=23_30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=purWmOFl8qc&list=PLD8359486D9A6BD00&index=33&feature=plpp_video

For the Americans (incl. Phil):
Goodluck with living on foodstamps very soon and with losing your homes. By all means: keep your head up your ass so you won't know what's coming.

And to all white people in general: goodluck losing everything you've ever valued, because there's indeed a war on YOU when you live in a multicultural society, whether you believe it or not. This was necessary for Zionists in order to divide and conquer white society. All races are encouraged to value their race and values, but if a white person does it, he'll be painted as a racist. This is done by design. Yes, sure: I am crazy, I know.

Have a nice suffering live because with all these ignorant people like you out here that don't want to smarten the fuck up, we're in for a nice hell on earth that will be so bad you'll want to kill your selves.

Well...haven't been here in quite a while... and reading my last posts... I'm ashamed for my tone.

I think the best we can do is to focus on love and light and have as much inner peace as possible. That's where I'm at now.

What a contrast

Welcome back megalodon.
Any other theories you want to discuss?

The system is corrupt, the government is bought and bribed, the richer get richer, and the poorer get poorer.

And all of the above is hot air.

Me, I just try to make my best way through the world, and whine as little as possible.

edit: P.S. I've actually lived on food stamps. And I've also lived on much less than foodstamps in Russia (read: a country other than America) ... And I also realise Mitt Romney (or whoever) makes more in 1 day (24 hours) than I do in the whole year.

welcome to the fed of eu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPcWHBPYOSU&feature=related

"THE SHOCKING TRUTH..." = probably misguided nonsense.

I guess the ESM has to be protected against getting sued and assets frozen in the middle of a crisis?

It looks like Finland will be the trouble maker again as it might not approve the suggested 85% majority decisions in ESM. Constitution would require Finland to be able to block the use of ESM. So it has to be 100%, not 85%, or veto right to the Finnish governor in ESM (unlikely).