Still haven't seen any picture, still nobody of your mates has backed up that you are different persons.. The funniest thing is that it has been like a month when you guys knew we started to investigate it again and NOBODY, NOBODY has pmed me about that they even think that you are telling the truth. Guess they don't want problems or then there is no reason to back you up maybe? So I am still waiting . And sorry, all this is still weirder than weird

The most intresting part is that I've felt all the time like you've been trying to make me accept your excuses without any backing up or any proper evidence. Not even willing to proove that you are different persons in any kind of tests which would not be mentioned before doing them . Without even reading the logs I can 99% surely say that you will not find a part where you directly say: Ok, so we can proove it, let's do it! which probably most people in this case would do

Also an intresting part is that Sniegowy has totally disappeared from QW since this came out, while you are still playing.

1. Also an intresting part is that Sniegowy has totally disappeared from QW since this came out, while you are still playing Itsinen probably doesnt play qw, because since that time and for exaple yesterday (or friday)we played on foppa. zerro, netspider can confirm. Besides he said he also waiting for end this problem

2. I write u 2-3 times that i can show u who was on party and can confirm.

3. all dc players said that they dont write anyting until i explain it only with admins (now i had do it because admins are doing nothing)

4 "The most intresting part is that I've felt all the time like you've been trying to make me accept your excuses without any backing up or any proper evidence. Not even willing to proove that you are different persons in any kind of tests which would not be mentioned before doing them " -------------ehh all my proofs and all what i said confim it.

5 "Still haven't seen any picture," lol i gave demos screens hooratio and he said that he gave u alll. I wrote that i can show, picture from party but noone ask for it. U are lazy to ask?.

6 "The funniest thing is that it has been like a month when you guys knew we started to investigate it again and NOBODY, NOBODY has pmed me about that they even think that you are telling the truth " Everyone waited for me to explain it myself, because i had to face the music alone.

7 Without even reading the logs I can 99% surely say that you will not find a part where you directly say: Ok, so we can proove it, let's do it! which probably most people in this case would do
Its not my job to find evidence, im innocent until you prove otherwise. i showed stronger proofs, that admins to do somthing with this. They didint do anything

8 Without even reading the logs I can 99% surely say that you will not find a part where you directly say: Ok, so we can proove it, let's do it! which probably most people in this case would do
[22:02] <[DC]shamoth> itsinen
[22:03] <[DC]shamoth> i dont have to talk about it on forum
[22:03] <[DC]shamoth> so i wanna do it with u
[22:03] <[DC]shamoth> fast and clear

1. Yes sorry, I noticed that he has played like ~1-2 day after that
2. Yes but I can also write that I have a picture where I am beating fatality in all games on lanparty, but still haven't seen it.
3. Well this is how everybody else would do it otherwise the opposite way in this world, because this makes it look as sneaky as possible. Because you can say whatever you want and they can read it and back the story up exactly like you have said without saying anything "wrong" by mistake
4. You still haven't had any proofs that are reliable and with your writing there you just confirmed my sentence once again!
5. If I were on the line here aswell as anybody else I would paste the link anyways, but guess this where all other people would do the opposite way again . And why did you give him the info and not me who you were talking with mainly, and why did "Snie" only contact Hto while he hasn't said a thing to me about anything. Veeery suspicious again
6. Yes well here all the other people in the world would have done the opposite again
7. We did proove you guilty, so now it's your turn to proove things, atleast should be willing to. And still, you have showed no reliable proofs. So yes, we don't do anything with stuff that isn't counted as proof (notice, unwilling to proove again!)
8. Yes, but then we have te rely on screenshots that you have been on the same server according to what "evidence" is good enough for you... Every player on the scene could fake as 10 players and qw with grow like hell if that was evidence enough

Usually I do also assume that if a person wants to paste almost all history of privs on a forum they atleast tell the other person about it when you've asked me to keep quiet about what you are saying.. But guess it's only a one way street. (Doesn't really matter but it is quite rude to do so)

ehhh. i see so this discution doesnt make sens. its like "never ending story" I will give ansver for uour speculation when i will back work. Better think what u going to do with us in next season, because we wanna play.

Sniegowy contacted me and said: Hello
Then he waited for me to reply because i was afk
Then he said he got to go and never tried to contact me again and I cant find him on irc.
Obviously I dont even know if this was a real person or just a made up ircname and what he could have told me about the whole situation.
Dunno how much this was supposed to help.

I still hope this can be resolved in a good manner and that Shamoth only faked as predator in a few maps.
If that can be proven then Shamoth only need this seasons ban and can play again next season and Sniegowy can be unbanned.

Dunno who can present anything to prove this tho?

Wait... Hold on... I hope it is proven, WITHOUT DOUBT, that Shamoth = Sniegowy = Predator. If not, this must be the worst example of witch hunting in the QW scene ever. There should be no reason for Shamoth to prove anything. If theres doubt, he clearly shouldn't be judged for anything apart from the admitted predator fake. If proven, it should be without doubt, and no evidence to try to prove the opposite should be even needed.

Maybe you were too hasty to draw conclusions? This hal.flost guy appears quite revenge hungry for some reason, presenting his case on these forums in this manner.

Uhm, when there are multiple nicks going to play from the same IP, same hardware and same client, you are NOT supposed to prove it is different people? You are NOT supposed to inform about this in advance? Admins are supposed to get evidence THEMSELVES for the fact it's different people?? How??

Rikoll: Well, same ips, same proxy routing, same area routing, same clients, same cmds, same settings, same computer specs (which also was disabled the same time for both) they are "related" and only a couple of times a year on the same server (mostly when somebody suspects they are the same person). When official games are played they seem to not be able to play on different servers at the same time etc. So how much more proof can you need considering it's "internet"?

And all what is provided back as proof seems to be: Words (by one of these 3 "persons", nobody else), screenshots of the nicknames beeing on server (this way even I could beat "Milton", demos (who couldn't play with another style? Just lower your sens and it's done), picture of somebody on a lan (which can't be prooved by anybody else than his clanmates who in this case probably would know it anyways from a long time). So does this feel like a big questionark to you?

The chance of prooving is just so this would get an end to this whole discussion...

Why you needed proofs at begining if sniegowy was your cousin ? since i know you used same setup so i dont see logic here . What you wanted see then DNA test ?
I hardly could believe you play at 2am quake with you cousin , but even if - should i believe someone who lie all the time ? you lied everything in you story about me
but fact is i am not DisCredied but you are.
I turned ppl etention to clanleaders becouse they should be responsible for clanmates.
Dc admited in comments they hired predator but he didnt told who he is and that he cant speak... you can hire monkey then also if you consider it like quality move.
Clanleader should also bench you for playing in other clans (You admited to play as predator at least one seson).Clan is about reputation and you ruined it not me.
Handy would be if everyone could read what you replay in comments when someone asking about pre and snie . It again was missleading.Also orginal versions of inteviews which was prepared on your site.
Even if snie is your cousin i dont know really which sniegowy he is.I know theres sniegowy somewhere but its not that sniegowy you introduced at begining .
I noticed Paradoks summarized this but basis on what knowledge ?
Community can believe what they want - noone forecing anyone - i believe pre and snie are usefull lineup spots for fakers ... and what is interesting it would be hard to be done elsewere beside situation where one clan managed to intecept whole pl scene.

Even if you are on proxy, server can get your REAL IP, through the proxy so that is not really matter for discussion, unless you are some uber hacker like slime =)

And why can't we just stick to the basics. Shamoth has already confessed he played few games, faking as predator. And based on that alone he is banned right?

About this sniegowy issue, it's not really that relevant or? is snie also playing in another team or what?
with all the quake shamoth is playing, with his own nick, it must be hard to find time faking for 2 other identities as well.

This sniegowy guy can just make a new player profile then and noone will be the wiser. and we can forget about this.
In ANY CASE, it doesn't make shamoth stand in any brighter light. He still faked in official EQL for another team - that's bad. end of story there.

He can continue to play in scene no problem and next season i guess i dno. He is active and nice guy just take this seasons punishment, and move on. This topic is getting old already.

So basically, if f.ex Trygve came over to my house, and played an EQL game on my computer, we could both get banned from EQL, and our teams deducted points? If only I then spoke up for us, because only I bothered to spend my time on it, nothing I would say could be taken serious because Trygve didn't also complain?

Ofc it's hard to prove anything like this on internet, and it makes it even more important to be careful with punishments. I also don't see why Shamoth would admit to faking as one nick, but spend loads of time and effort trying his best to convince you otherwise about the relation between him and Sniegowy.

Rikoll well maybe if he plays somewhat all his games from your place that would be quite suspicious, if ppl wouldn't know you both excist and are different persons

And Shamoths record keeps playing the same song

1. Only 3 players seem to have the client version you have, it's not a "normal one" (atleast which "you, snie and pred" used earlier)
2. Got pics from f_system from several people from several times
3. Yes, same realip also which I assume doesn't mean another part of the city
---
1. You don't need admins to play your private 2on2s on polish servers
2. Why not post it public?
3. Didn't get what you were talking about here
4. Yes, YOU said it. And I said I might have a solution which didn't require any touching. You just weren't intrested in this solution
5. If you have been talking all nights with me, why switch to an admin who isn't up to date in the discussion in this case? (we don't brief each other every night you know)

What mistake? We weren't the ones faking

That is not really a good comparison, there are plenty of people who know and can confirm that you and Trygve are two different people, also it's unlikely that Trygve havn't been playing matches at the same time as you have. It is also highly unlikely that you and Trygve is using the same rare client version.

I'm not taking any sides here, I havn't been involved with this due to being absent for most of the EQL season, and I havn't really been following the whole debate. But it's quite clear that the example you mention, doesn't really compare to Shamoth's.


My guess is (if he is Sniegowy), he is already banned as Shamoth for faking as Predator - So he can't play as Shamoth in the playoffs. Sniegowy is also banned because (allegedly) he is really Shamoth. But if this is revoked because of lack of proof, then Sniegowy is unbanned and Shamoth can continue to play the playoffs as Sniegowy. -You follow? Think I lost myself there...

-Or... He just isn't Sniegowy

First of all, I am not trying to say that Shamoth is not Sniegowy.

But according to my QW experience, it is very common situation with same settings.
Personally, I played all my official games from Avanes's computer during 2004.
During 2005 I played all games from Glad's computer.
They had nice computers and very good internet connections and that was the main reason.

Also up to 20 different players played on my computer with my setup during last 5 years. Same for a lot of players who have close friends who play qw.
Have a party or just drink beer with friend? Why not to play some qw? Even official one if friends computer and connection are better than yours.

CSI QW. Get a Sniegowy demo and a Shamoth demo. Compare movement/aim patterns.

OK this is going to be a long one ;x

Very self righteous people in this thread, When all shamoth is trying to do, is ask for a bit of understanding from the admin team. Never going to happen from experience.

Why do you ban people, before having a long drawn out conversation with them? For shock value? (BIG DRAMA) Some sort of sadistic pleasure in writing "FOUND A FAKER!, CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT WHO" DUN DUN DA. Why don't you consult with the "supposed faker" and listen to their side of the story first? As opposed to after when they are asking why the fuck they were banned. Surely if you asked shamoth whether he was faking as sniegowy, he could of provided all the details hes trying to provide now and you could of reached a fairer solution?

Itisnen, mister high council. Why are you smiling all the time? You just come across as a dictator with absolutely no compassion (its like you get pleasure from it). Give the guy a break? You are not absolutely sure hes sniegowy, yet you let the power run through your cock. Banning them both? nice one man, sniegowy was one of the most active players in this dying game. Forgot thats an important factor i guess?

hooraytio (cyclops) "its never me", shoots another friend in the torso *SHAMOTH* hooraytio wants to be itsinen, when itisnen finally dies and passes the torch of leadership.

Itsinen you are someone who never plays but (busy guy) who has the time, teamed up with other people like renzo (finnish police) to scan everyone who doesnt fit into the perfect qw player image and try and get them arrested, then thrown in jail. Losing more active players and ruining someone's fun (its a game, right)? Not to you its a police state and only established community members pass go.

For arguments sake lets say sniegowy was some different nick name in the past. For example insane. Didnt want to be in the spot light or care anymore about Paradoks knowing his intimate details. You ban him because hes a faker? Matched an ip address to him from 10 yrs ago, banned ;/ I think your technique is disgusting, totally invasive and more often than not inaccurate/inconclusive. Never know enough about their locations/ISP's/IP orientation. Oh wait you dont need that they got the same clients and rate commands?? OH ye secret F system remotely now also, fuck it gets tasty. *YAWN*

Another one, say pietro came back as tomboy and tried to join your league but he was rusty and didnt want to be thrown straight into div 1 or have the pressure of being pietro hanging over him. Didnt submit a complying enough background story and his ip matched with some swede, 5 yrs ago called vegas, BAN. Doubt that is important though, he doesnt move like a stickle brick and tomboy is totally unknown! BAN HIM, non populated air we breathe.

Alienating a lot of people because they have to be established people not just players. Next eql you should just have an option to upload CV, save a lot of time for you busy admins, on such pressing issues. Why do you even accept unknown players, if you just spend all this time trying to prove they are fakes. Why is being a fake a bannable offense? Just keep the same boring players/teams, no new players allowed;d If this fake is too skilled just move the clan up, problem solved but no too self righteous for that.

Then we got the Merlin, in Paradoks. He thinks everything he says is gospel because hes a dinosaur with nothing better to do. Not that agile dinosaur either that looks cool when he runs full steam into the wilderness (look at me im special).

Fakers as you call us, we just dont fit your little dream community, doesnt mean we dont offer a lot to the game, especially in its current state. CBK were the most active team, by quite some margin. Yourself paradoks, even enjoyed their presence. Many late night games for you to play in, without the usual division exclusion and even bonded with the guys i got from another game (dominator and robocod) Robocod, who also got banned wrongly because of some pathetic evidence that was completely inconclusive. Stickman was it? give me a break, another active player lost.

The small detail was I had to play a different persona/ skill level (was div 3 standard) that by definition (letter of the law) is deemed a faker and should be banned. Anonymity is not allowed anymore, which potentially excludes a lot of players (REALLY REALLY BAD IMO) In turn losing the most active clan in quakeworld and a hungry/fresh one at that. Not stale, like the bitter old men you have become, who are scared of anything outside their comfort zone (the rules/high council law) and of course the many pretentious players, who are so afriad of getting beaten. Mainly div 3 vetrens, who think it's their define right to have complete control on who they get to play. Never anyone too good that that may collapse their pretty apple cart. Division structure should be one division and maybe a second one for the really clueless ones, not experienced useless players, who I am afraid dont deserve to be called champions of anything. This is another discussion completely, but you get my point I hope.

It will always be a small scene now and policing it like you do will just decrease the numbers even more. POINT AND CASE, potentially losing shamoth and sniegowy. Why would he say they both want to play next season? Is he really that psychotic or is he being honest with you? I think the latter, so swallow your pride and kiss his feet for forgiveness.

Apologies for the long mound of text but this is pretty close to home. Hope you get it resolved shamoth and please dont think everyone shares their views, I certainly do not.

peace out to your peoples

<- marv

I think you can start doing rules for new league FQL - <Fakenickers Quake League> , and then play dice to make divisions . Admins did his job . Accept rules or dont play.

Admins do lots of work for free and they only get bullshit. I've never actually read a thread about thanking admins for leagues.

I think it's really selfish and self centered to think that you should've a right to play in EQL even though you don't give a shit about rules/other players/admins/anybody.

I hope that EQL admins can stand all this shit (especially from div1 crybabys) and do the work they're doing because I don't really see any of these Sir Talks-a-lots doing anything.

lol marvel, nice donkey rant.

It's not about faking per say, its about blantantly faking, so you can get in a much lower division or skill based clan, so you can rape some newbies and get the praise from everyone "omg new prodigy". Or when you fake to play in multiple clans breaking the rules intentionally to cheat.

And about TBK.. why did you even stop? Could just continue, noone give a fuck if you are faking, but if you are doing it to play in multiple teams etc, then it's a problem. Maybe you think it's good idea to just throw all rules overboard.. anyone can signup for as many teams as they want, under as many nicks as they want.. Hell, we can double activity in the scene if everyone has 2 nicks, plays in 2 clans in multiple divisions.

Why even have identities at all.. just make random nicks when you join server, so much fun. not.

About being anonymus... well, it's hard to be so anonymus in such small scene,. if u wanna be anonymus and get lost in the crowd... go play BF3 or WOW, with millions of other sheep.

Here part of the fun actually is knowing who u play against, build history with people and teams.. have some rivalry. That's half the fun for most ppl.

marvel, I think you are confused... Changing your nickname is not the same as faking, if you want you can change your nickname every season... As long as you don't do it to get into a division were you don't belong.

Eg. if insane was Sniegowy, it would be considered faking as he plays in division3, while if Pietro came back as tomboy to play in division2, that would be ok.

I have no interest in becoming Itsinen

I see no difference between them tho one played in div1 and another in div3. Mark them all as div1 and theres no problem for me.

but tbh i would rather like not see these nicks playing from same ip but i guess he will not resign from sniegowy nick .

The best way to find out. Upload 3-3 Sammoth-Sniegowy demo here(wich is recorded before the drama), and let th community decide. I think noone can get an absolute proof. Banning ppl in such a small scene sux. Punish them other way, he should confess his crime here, and there should be a wall of shame, when their name will be on, but no ban, its just doin damage, wont fix anything.

Well he is only banned from this EQL season so far. Now DC lost to Oclan so there are no more games for Shamoth.
Machinery isnt in playoffs so there are no more games for sniegowy even if he is a real player. As of now, it is more likely that Shamoth is Sniegowy than Sniegowy being a unique player.

So, there are still pracs, upcoming eql kenya, eql pro (if Shamoth and/or Sniegowy, if he is a real player, could take a place in a team that qualifies) and there will be another EQL season.

Niether one is banned from quakeworld, just from EQL14.
From my personal view it would be better to allow Shamoth, if he want to, to play in EQL15 than to ban him from the upcoming season as well.
Just as we let Marvel play in eql14 even though he faked in eql13.

Have you thought about any conditions or just like that ? becouse he missed one game for now so i dont think it means anything ?
You think it was no big deal ? i think it was ... if i was admin i would consider is under some compromise becouse you next year say " oh common , shamoth faked last year , marv eql13 ,, lol why even bother about fakers .. we dont even punish them

-matter of that"phantom players/nicknames"
-assurance that he will not fake anymore
-would be nice also that shamoth take back that bullshit about me in his story becouse i have/had pure intentions and contribution/history in pl qw and since i dont have anything with it i see no point he feed ppl with this lies.

It was a personal view. We will see what happens in EQL15 and other EQL tournaments.

Guys, I play very occasionally, watching qtv more offten, and I'm also from Poland, so I was watching shamoth many times on polish servers and reading him on forum - you may say I like(ed) him. And I want to say few words.

First: shamoth admitted, that he fakenicked few times Predator in official EQL games. That's absolutly enough reason to ban him. Period.

IMHO if you say "well... OK, the scene is small... let him play anyway" then this may be definite end of the scene. Because one will never be sure with whom does he play or who does he watch on qtv, so it would not have any sense anymore. If you let him play you will make a precedent and show that even when one faked maybe he will not be punished. Who knows how many new fakers will this situation born.

Second: did shamoth fakenicked Sniegowy? Admins have serious reasons to believe he did. And knowing, that he already did fakenicked Predator FOR SURE - is obviously enough fact for me, that we must assume he did fakenicked Sniegowy also. And now it is shamoth job to provide any evidences, to prove that he did not fakenicked Sniegowy. It is this way because he is already known to be fakenicking, so now roles are changed and shamoth is a one who need do prove his eventual innocence about fakenicking Sniegowy.

Third: why can't you see shamoth is aggressive to admin? In IRC log that shamoth provided in this thread I see that he tries to PUSH admin very not pleasantly to make admint shamoth innocences! OMG! WTF is going on?? shamoth you f*ck! STFU and be very thankful to admins that they still want to talk to you!!! And very, very polite! You did fakenicked Predator in official games you as*hole!!! You bring many times that you played from year 97? So it is bigger shame on you! How such old quaker could do this??

And fourth: BIG THANKS for admins who manage leagues to run. Even if I play occasionally I have always much fun watching games on qtv, so thank you for your work, which - as we can see now - sometimes really is not pleasure.

And about polish forum - there is thread about it and it seems everybody are shocked about what shamoth did...

Cheers
von Dabke /Dab3r