Does everything have to be about food with you????

Although I personally like new maps, ideas and concepts, I feel that's it weird to introduce the tourney draft system at the same time as new maps. Many players can't be arsed to learn new maps, so the overall interrest in a draft tourney itself will not be accurate seen with a possible EQL-kenya-draft. I think a draft TB3 tourney should be run firstly and then kenya-draft if the TB3-draft was successul. Seems more logical to me.

I agree that the addition of a draft league is simply a plus, and much respect for you guys trying to arrange it! I do think it would be even more of a plus if you let everyone who wanted to in on it, but all in all, it's a very good initiative.

This thread isn't about that. Pgs theory seems to be that without breaking up existing teams, QW will die. I think the problem lies elsewhere, and not in QW TDM tournament layouts. If tourney admins are gonna force teams apart for the future, I think it will only accelerate the decreasing player base, and add close to nothing.

Thats also why I'm shouting out loud, or what to call it, against this theory. I also think its disgusting how pg puts this out here, even if his words seems soft enough. Claiming to know it all, and that we should follow his advice or QW will die. True, QW might die, but I think its way far fetched to think it is because of teams consisting of good players playing together in the highest div of a tournament, and I find it disgusting to even suggest that. At the end of the day, the thing f0m brought into this season was one aditional team in div1 that wouldn't be there otherwise, and a proper challenge to the reigning champions.

He can claim to be the spokesman for the whole scene all he wants, but Pgs theory is not the truth of anything, as he claims. It's simply one man with an idea and wishes for how he, himself, wants the scene to be like.

The Ignition tournament is one of the best initiatives this scene has had in a couple of years to attract new players imo. From my view, much of the heartbeat of this scene seems to be random 1on1 / 2on2 / ffa amongst the established as well as newcomers, and not the more hard-to-master 4on4 games (or serious 1on1s / 2on2s for that matter). Serious 1on1/2on2 or 4on4 will first become interesting once you master the basics! The problem lies elsewhere than 4on4 tournament admining. I think we're doing much right atm. Just continue to advertise for this game in every forum we can, and more tournaments like Ignition (or a draft 4on4 that welcomes everyone), is the best idea for the future of this scene imo. Without money, what else can we do? If the interest isn't there amongst modern gamers, then tough luck. It was a good run at least! Forcing teams to break up by not allowing them in tournaments will not do anything good. It will most likely just do more harm.

And Zalon: yes of course, i didnt mean it litteraly that it was God intervention that has made QW survive to this day. You, amongst others, are a very important factor to why this game is still alive

Am I the only one who gets motivated by teams like fOm? They shouldn't be "punished" for simply being so damn good. I rather see it as a challenge and put more time into becoming as good as them so I can help my team beat them eventually. It creates a goal for me to strive for = motivation.

But I guess old people simply aren't competitive or something. I'm quite young, both in real life and in quakeworld since I've only played a couple of years. In 10 years maybe I'll think of this differently as well.

Yours,
Andeh

I'm curious to know who is about to arrange what and what the timeframes for the various upcoming competitions are?

Been busy with holidays and STA 4v4 Draft and I came here with the intent to apologize to Rikoll but after reading his latest post I want to say, Rikoll you are offensive. I'm just posting thoughts in an effort to try and help the EU QW scene which I am not a part of. I'm sorry I get worked up about it, but I do feel strongly. I've been posting a little to try and spark this draft idea in the EU scene for a long time (if you really want to check look at my post history on here). Now Rikoll starts saying I'm proclaiming myself QW Jesus and claiming to know it all. I thought you were a class act but now I know the truth. You even complimented my ESR Interview of Higgs and Devastation but you probably didn't realize that was me who posted it.

Let me ask you a question Rikoll - do you really believe you such a different player now in fOm than when you were in Fusion? The main thing that has changed is your team mates, not yourself. It does not take great QW skill to decide for all the best players to team up together, that is a metagaming political decision. Deciding to win before any match is even played. No one is going to stop Milton from being a boss in a draft league. He'll still make great plays and be at the top of the QW skill curve. In fact I'd argue Milton would have an even greater chance to shine if he isn't on a top team but has to fight for victory in a more fair draft league environment. Do you think Michael Jordan would have stood out like he did if he was on a team full of top NBA players? Greatness flares even more brightly when placed next to the mundane and has to struggle to win.

Anyhow Rikoll you claiming to understand my words better than myself is the height of arrogance, if anyone is claiming to know it all it is in fact you, Rikoll. Look in the mirror before you try and judge others.

The STA 4v4 Draft in NA is, I dare say, a wild success given the state of our scene a few months ago. We have some great players play in it as well such as Vegeta, Blaze, Squeeze (took over Sane's team), etc. They've all lost rounds despite being probably the 3 best players in the NA QW scene. I think there is a lot to be said for a great players being put in a more fair draft environment without Valla, Paradoks and Dag backing you up on your div1 stacked team. Milton could possibly end up on a losing team in the draft league. Also it allows for lower skill players to strive for greatness. How great would it be for a div3 guy to take the last quad run in a tied game in a draft league, then bump into an enemy RL Milton at RA on DM3 and somehow come out victorious? Scenarios such as those are possible in a draft league.

Peace.

My two cents (I have not read the entire thread)

I was able to learn duel on my own. I was not able to learn 4on4 on my own. I played some mixes, but it boiled down to an elaborate FFA on my part, and no idea what to do. I read the guides, I read threads, but I was missing something important

I was missing practices with an actual team. Not mixes, but practices where you play as a team, paying attention to mm2/mm3, and reviewing games and planning strategies together.

I recently started to play on the NA QW 4on4 draft league. I think I improved my 4on4 skills double from what they were previously. Maybe it went from "nonexistent" to "terrible", but it is something.

I honestly believe the reason I improved is because I was able to play with a team with actual teamplay and just having that experience from more knowledgeable players on the team rub off on me. In the past, when I played mixes (even with a good player on the team) I didn't really learn anything, and it didn't help matter that I was the odd one out - it was a solid 4 player team vs a solid 3 player team and me. And all that I learned is how to spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die.

Also, I don't think there's any room for calling people self righteous twats. Especially by someone as classy as rikoll

edit: I recorded some games (not of me playing) from this kind of "insider" POV. Just watching it, I was able to take mental notes and learn a great deal. I think new 4on4 players need to experience this and not mixes and not being part of a clueless team getting raped.