Hey everyone,

I've created a native-American inspired duel map, entitled "Before the White Man", and I'm hoping you'll all give it a try. Since this is in beta, I'd appreciate as much constructive criticism and suggestions as possible. Pay particular attention to the red armor room; while it most servers its purpose, I feel it has greater potential. Also, keep in mind that while the layout is largely final, the visual appearance and lighting is not, so please focus on game-play and item placement.

Finally, this level was designed to play to the strengths of QuakeWorld's physics, and some additional areas of the map can only be accessed by taking advantage of them (there is both a much-needed reward to this, as well as cost for taking advantage of these areas). Feel free to do as many trick jumps around as you can, and please let me know where more can be added.

Main Room:

Lower Level:

Hallway to RA Room


The map file name is 'bgj_dm1'. In order to play, copy the PAK file into your id1 directory, launch the game, open the console and type, 'map bgj_dm1'. Get it here: Download Link
Attention: There is a new version of the map in the comments below!

In case you're wondering about the weapon models featured in the screenshots, they're my simple-style gweps, available on GFX! You can download them here.

While I wait for feedback, I'll begin construction on my next level, which should be ready fairly quickly. Look forward to it.

Enjoy the level,

- Boot Guy Joe

(Edited 2013-02-14, 04:48)

Nice to see a new map coming !
Now, for the critics:

- Not sure about lg and Mh in the same room, it's a bit overpowered
- Mh room has only one exit, dm4-like, not sure if it's a problem but i don't like it that much
- The second ( ? ) lg corridor should be rounded, you can't go through it at full speed with these corners, it would make the "rl ammo - lg - rl ammo' path more fun
- it's a bit annoying not being able to climb just by jumping on the stairs and having to ramp jump but that's my opinion
- 2 gl ?

- I know you said lightning was not done, but you can't see shit in two zones, next to the ra and next to the rl
- Maybe it would be more qwish to have lava to fall into instead of emptiness ?

Overall it seems a bit "wide" and "empty", but i think it could be a good layout with some tweaks, it has a good flow. Maybe scale it down a bit ?
You should also find a way to make it less easy to run @ 1000kmh on it
But you really should not keep 2 lgs, maybe just get rid of the one next to the mega.

First of all I really like the map layout. Its simple and you know where to find all items in a few minutes of running it. But there are some bugs and item placements you should really think about. Here are my suggestions:

- Replace RL with Mega
- Replace GL with RL
- Remove the LG in Secret Path
- Put a yellow armor at "short secret path"
- 2nd RL at high ra (when you jump into tele at ra)
- Replace GA with GL
- Replace LG (SECRET) with LG AMMO
- The trigger "fall to death" works buggy. If u jump to death and jump right after spawn into the same hole u wont die.
- There are a lot texture missplacings
- Tele exit marker is missing at high stairs
- I would like to see some lava or slime pools instead of falling to death like in dm4 where you can rj out.

This are my 2 cents I can upload a demo to show you the bug i described.

Addition: Did I miss a secret teleporter that leads to RA ? Because there is a tele exit but I didnt found the entrance.

Ohhh! gonna try it when I come home!

dl link is broken?

can anyone mirror it?

If u stand on the MH "platform" and then walk towards the stairs u get stuck for a millisecond, solution? make the platform lower?

The ceilingbeams in the MH room should be raised since u bump into the when u jump

There´s a little spawnroom before you jump down to RA, you dont spawn in the room, u spawn outside it and it´s also missing the bottom rim texture inside the room?

You can get stuck on the window in the rl room, maybe add some cliptextures on the sides.

misaligned textures in SSG corridor
misaigned textures in the entrance of the secret nearest to the rl

2 GL´s isnt necessary and I usually like to have the GL´s higher up on the map so u can shoot grenades down on enemies

I dont know what you´re intentions were regarding having to climb the stairs before jumping into the secrets but here´s some way to get into the "secret-rooms" without having to climb the stairs:

secret1
secret2
secret3

You can get high speeds on this map, I like speed

trick

Thanks, guys!

I've taken many of your suggestions, and I'll upload an updated version soon (probably around midnight EST). I'd like to respond to some of your specific comments:

@ Jissse: Thanks, I'm glad there are people still looking for new content. I'm planning two more maps after this, one of which is already under construction! Anyway, I've removed the lightning gun from the MG room. I totally understand how you feel about the MG room having only one exit; I originally designed that room with two, but it kind of got lost after having moving things around. That said, I also appreciate the need for a "trap" room. It makes going after a powerful item a risky venture. I'm going to experiment with adding an "trap door"... something you'll most likely have to rocket/trick jump out of. I won't make it too difficult, though

Those passageways were designed to reward the player with additional ammo if they were willing to risk the ramp jump (which after a couple of games becomes like second-nature). After hearing about your frustrations, I experimented with various ways to enter them without the ramp jump - stairs, regular ramps, etc. Nothing felt right. In the end, I tweaked the entrance to stand out a bit more, and curved what was formally the LG passage to allow for increased speed, as suggested.

@ anni: Thanks! I've taken a lot of your suggestions about item placement, and I do agree that it feels better now. Not sure about moving the MH though, I kind of like where it is. Will keep option open, though. Also, thanks for catching that "fall to death" bug - I've removed the pits and replaced them with lava, as many of you guys have suggested.

@ CarlJ: Glad you're excited about the map! I caught that MH Platform bug too, and already came up with solution. About the grenade launcher; I've removed the second grenade launcher and placed the remaining one higher up. I typically place GLs high up too. The reason I placed them lower this time is because they're actually pretty useful down there; from the lower level in the main room, you can lob grenades up where the teleport destination resides, stopping potential ambushes. But in the end, you're right. Speed's the name of the game, and it's better to place the guns right where they're particularly useful.

Nice videos! Those ramp jumps were totally my intention there. As stated earlier, those passageways were designed to reward those who take the risk of jumping up there, while not containing must have items. I've experimented with stairs, but I just don't like them. Anyway, feel free to experiment with speed runs and trick jumps. If you find any more cool tricks (like in that fourth video you uploaded), please, let me know and I'll adjust the level to accodomate for them!

One last thing for everyone: please pay no mind to the misaligned textures. I'm not going to fix those until all the BSP geometry is finalized. Thanks for caring enough to make a note of it, though!

Thanks again, and expect an updated download link soon!

Beta 2 is now available!

Would've had it sooner, but work got in the way. Again, don't pay that much attention to the lighting and texture alignment. Focus on game-play stuff. Still got some things to add in:

The second exit out of the mega room
Another passageway in the Red Armor room
Missing teleporter destination
Removal of outdated tele destination in Red Armor room
Final lighting positions
texture alignment
a few decorations

Main Room:

Red Armor Room:


Get the new version below! Beware, the file has been renamed! Its new name is bdm1!
Get bdm1 here!

Packaging feedback:

Please do not put stuff into pak files unless you make a mod. Standard Quake engines will only load pak files with numbers (pak0, pak1, pak2, etc) and only until there is a gap. Please use a standard zip file instead. Name it the same as the bsp file.

Please write a readme text file. Even if it is just "This is the Xth beta of my map ABC (xyz.bsp). -YourNick". You did not even add a title or nick to the bsp file itself which means no one knows who made it. Name the text file the same as the bsp and zip file.

If you release beta versions, make sure to indicate that in the filenames. For example bdm1_beta2.bsp or if you want to stay more compatible: bdm1b2.bsp.

I highly recommend only using letters and numbers, no other characters like _ or -. Quake engines are notoriously bad on supporting international keyboard layouts.

As a straightforward host you can use http://www.quaketastic.com/ (pw for uploading is ilovetheshubhub). Make sure you chose a good filename!

Im attending a qw / cs:go Lan this weekend, maybe we could try some games on this map so I can get a better feel for the flow

@ Spirit: Thanks, I'll take that under advisement. I think I'll be sticking with file dropper though, I do not want to upload the beta versions where random people can get to them. I just wanted to do a small, closed-ish beta getting exactly the kind of feedback I've already gotten from the others. I'll upload the final release to that link of yours, as well as GFX.

@ CarlJ: That sounds awesome! I was planning the next update to be the release candidate, but if you're going to put this a lan, then I better make a few changes to increase playablitiy! Let me know when you will need it, and I'll then I'll upload the next version.

If anyone has any more useful critiques about the map, I'd love to hear it. How's the Red Armor room? I find the jump from the second floor is kind of awkward now that the room is a square (as opposed to rectangular), and I'm currently experimenting with ways to make it easier. The hallway connecting the RA room to the lower level main room is still pretty barren - I'm still trying to figure out what to do there. Finally, the upper level near the GL feels too busy now. I think I'm going to remove the wall protrusions that are at the base of every passageway entrance. I really like the item placement the way it is now, and unless a severe balancing issue arises, I don't have any real plans to change it.

Anyway, please keep the constructive feedback coming. To avoid redundant feedback and resume progress toward a final release, take note that the following will NOT change:

General layout

Overall texture choice (visual theme)

Current weapon & item placement (save for a few minor adjustments)

Lava traps

The following ARE open to changes:

Room size and proportions

Texture placement and alignment

Lighting

Decorations, fixtures, doodads, and small ledges that accommodate for QW physics and trick jumps

The lower hallway connecting the main room to the Red Armor room

The Red Armor room

[*] The Mega Health room

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the helpful advice and suggestions. When I do get around to writing up the README file, I'll include a "Special Thanks" to all of you guys!

Some quick thoughts!

The window at the RL is sticking out from the wall making it impossible to stand on the blue thing over the teleporter.

If you come from the MH room and u notice someone running in to get RL it would be cool if u could do a rocketjump up over the teleporter, stand there and fire rockets into the RL room.

This next thing could be hard to implement but maybe make the rocketjump up from RA over the teleporter a little harder so it isnt so easy to make a rocketjump up there.

You added 2 windows over RA, you can rocketjump up there, are u supposed to be able to do that? maybe add some rocket ammo or something up there, or add something blocking the way so u cant get up

what about raising the RA platform so u have to utilize the slope at the stairs that u added to be able to get up to the RA when you´re at the ground floor

there´s a demon texture with a flame infront of it next to the secret with the RL ammo, if you adjust the height abit ´, then it´s possible to jump from it into the secret RL ammo room

the ya placement is an improvement

if u stand at RA facing the teleporter and then look into the right corner of the room, rocketjump up, u will see a glitch in your brushwork, atleast I see it on my computer (it´s over the healthpacks)

I think you should add in a U-jump, it´s the jump where you utilize aircontrol, like the jump over the lava at SSG on dm2 or how u get to RA on Tiddles map "Castle"

You still get stuck if u stand on MH and then try to walk up the stairs.

Maybe make another exit from the secret room where u get LG ammo into the RA room, then u would get a reason to go in there since it´s hardly worth it for the LG ammo? or why not add a window there so you can shoot from RA upto LG ammo and vice versa?

Maybe take away the teleporter from the RL room and extend that room over the MH room so u can drop down on the MH or shoot the ones trying to get the MH, I would like to hear you´re thoughts on this idea.

these are my reflections at first glance

And I will be glad to help you with trickjumping ideas

I noticed that brush error at RA too and I would like to see a shortcut from demon torch to rockets too. I dont like the 2 windows at RA, the possibility to stand on all blue borders and you should remove the GL torches (you have enough now).

I noticed some FPS drops maybe check for holes in your map. Maybe that RA brush error leadsto that.

And I agree with spirit *.bsp files are the way to go.

Yo! Bootguy, where´s the update?

wish i would have gotten here earlier to comment on the connectivity but since you're not going to change anything with the layout i won't
haven't got to play it in a duel or anything but i guess i can comment on detailing. Heres some stuff I found and it might give you some more ideas on how to detail.

general
- scale feels about right
- really cool to see another mapper for qw keep going. maybe muff1n might make another qw map
- ceiling and floor are both the same texture. it probable makes sense but from a gameplay perspective it might be better to have different textures. Pretty easy to change using radiants find/replace tool.
- problem i have with my maps as well: stair tips could be trimmed so it makes them more distinguishable
- spawn / item / tele-exit cubbies could be trimmed with the lighter colored trim
- secret cells path entrance could be trimmed

main atrium
-maybe extrude the red ceiling trim so it sticks out and looks more interesting than just being flat against the stone,
- maybe add that lighter colored trim that you used for the teleporter to mega window around the demon faces
- tele room maybe the tele needs to be giving off some light or have a light above or near the teleporter. pretty dark back in there and the lights are unsourced.

ra room
- maybe turn the stone backdrop of the ra-room big windows either into all sky or break up the the squareness of the of the stone by making it jagged.
- maybe add some trim to the big windows

mega room
- the mega room doesn't have any source to its lights
- mega room is suffering from a boring room problem i'm actually having with a mega room that im developing
- mega room only has one texture besides the mega pad / tele-exit pad
- mega room no bottom wall trim like the rest of the map
- the rounded corner of the megaroom the stone texture doesnt match up with the rest of the wall
- not a big deal but the ceiling of the mega room isn't level. there is like a big square hanging down and im not sure but it doesnt look right.

ra to main atrium
- ssg hallway pretty boring, maybe add in some floor detail or wall detail. an example of floor detail would be the holes in dm4 that let you see through to lava.

Hey, all!

Sorry for the lack of recent updates; I've been quite busy. Anyway, I have been making many adjustments to the map, and the next update will in fact be the release candidate. I've accounted for all the recent feedback, and I'd like to respond to each individually, however there's no time for that at the moment.

The next version will be uploaded in approximately a week. I'll post teaser screenshot every now and then (to let everyone know progress is still being made).

Stay tuned!

Any progress?

Sorry for the delay, guys. I've made a classic mapper's mistake and kept tweaking it and tweaking it and tweaking it until it didn't even resemble the same level anymore. Simply lost sight of the scope. This is the main reason for the huge delay. To rectify this, I've reverted to a previous build and preparing that for release.

On the plus side, as soon as that's done, you're going to get another level based what I've been working on for the last few weeks! Here's a preview!

Looks nice