3rd time this has happend now- i join a public tdm match, first thing any 1 says to me is 'i dont like you' followed by being kicked/banned without reason to make space for other people/people dont want a noob on their team.

thats just not the way to do things if you want the qw community to grow

mm who kick you?

Unfortunately these kind of things happen It's a pretty small community with a lot of experienced players. I'm guessing it's a 4on4 game we talk about here, which indeed is a bit special. The skill level of a good 4on4 game today is really really high and takes several years to master. Unfortunately the majority of the players joining a mix-4on4-game today are experienced players, also frustrated about the lack of (to them) "worthy" opponents.

I know there are a lot more new players though and they usually play 4on4 (but also 2on2, 1on1 ofc) together to learn and improve. Join #qwrookie on QuakeNet (IRC) and ask around, I'm sure you'll get a lot of answers and perfectly fitted practicing mates

GL and feel free to ask if you have any questions.

(Oh and yeah, there is a pretty good 4on4 teamplay guide on the forum )

Hi and welcome!
It's hard for the new ones to get in. The solution is found in dimmans comment. And there are plenty nice players around, don't get knocked down because youd found the occasional bad apple

Type /observe before they kick you; atleast you can watch the game. And spectating is my next advice to what you should be doing alot.
Good luck and hope you find equally (non)skilled players to play with!

yer you guys are right, i have met some awesomely helpful people through duel and such. I was just raging haha. After just playing my first 4v4 i can see why i got kicked... just be nicer if they just at least typed asking me to go spec or something. Thanks for info guys

EDIT: il check out that team play guide now, cheers

Make a ladder NQR2 style, all maps.

Make a CTF ladder also for noobs: learn to defend, attack and communicate.

And make lots of newsupdates on the content these games produce.

It is the only way to make qw grow again (no im not crazy).

Or just perish in the tb3-flames.

I couldnt do it, i started a business irl, i will be gone for some years (www.foballsfo.no - up may 1st)

When i come back, rich, i will change it all.

Until that day:

Dont let me tell you I told you so.

Have fun.

Over and Out.

I think some people could have better manners when it comes to situations like these just like you observed. I wish there were more regular 4on4 rookie mixes going though so there's a natural place for new players to go for their 4on4 fix. Perhaps something could be initiated in #qwrookie on Quakenet and then follow that up with a tournament?

"Ake Vader checks his glasses"

A ladder would just have all the usual teams which would beat the living crap out of any newbies :S IIRC the ladder was relaunched a couple of years ago and it wasnt that popular even among the established teams.

Yeah it was a summer ladder and it failed miserably for obvious reasons; summer=inactivity
The current EQL season is also kinda idle, not really sure how to boost interest.
I thought that the 3 Salvation seasons would have boosted the 4on4 interest but apparantly not enough.

Possibly the new Salvation seasons just meant that people focussed on their draft teams meaning that the clan scene went idle - then making it difficult for some to just pickup where they left off a year before. For example if you look at a clan like Slackers it would have been hard to imagine some time ago that they wouldn't participate in EQL16.

Blaming the draft? That´s a longshot if I ever saw one.

lol?

How can rookies be the "usual teams"?

Why would rookies play to get owned?

Why does it matter if its not popular among the established teams if it is for rookies?

Why does established teams wanna play rookies?


Its not strange you cant get a good scene for rookies when the established community cant think longer than this...

I think HangTime got a point, hence one of my reasons to not sign up for the first season at all. When the clan scene first was killed and butchered by Salvation, I saw no reason to continue the boycott.

I doubt that the absence of Salvation would have prolonged the life of the clan scene much longer anyway. Some would also say it already was dead even before Salvation, but I wouldn't quite agree with that. With tVS back, it is at least something interesting going on. But then again, Slackers is gone making it quite square even. At least SD looks strong and active enough to maybe challenge an inactive tVS, so maybe a potential final between those would be a treat.

For me, I'd rather play and spectate a "poor" and quite inactive clan league(read: EQL16), than play or spectate a good mix (read: Salvation) league again.

My comments don't apply if it's a pure rookie ladder that you would set up, then you would end up with like 5 teams max?

Thanks for proving my point

Pretty interesting how this thread turned from the topic of new players not being treated nicely to the topic of established players being dissatisfied with how things are. If I got a dollar every time this happened - a discussion about how to help new players being overturned into a discussion where established players complain about things - I'd be a millionaire by now.

One of the things new players should try is to stop visiting qw.nu, these forums, current IRC qw channels, and make their own website, new rookie-only servers, new IRC channels, and make sure no current established players has any sort of access to any of those. It sounds like it's lots of work, but building a new community can bring lots of joy and nice new experiences.

It is apparent that established players not only fail to create activity that would benefit new players, they even fail to create activity they would enjoy themselves. It is also apparent that established players will always put their own selfish interests first, and interests of new players only after that. Few years back I thought that won't be the case, as keeping the game alive is in the interest of everybody. Later I started to see that most of the current players do know that they won't play QW as much later on as they do now, so it's OK with them if QW dies out slowly - because they expect their own interest to slowly - not completely, just slowly - die out too.

Oh snap!

Hey johnny, atleast I didnt force the div3/rookies to play vs div0 this season in EQL...
Thats gotta count for something even in your book!

It´s hardly fair to shine a negative light on people contributing to the community even if it´s "only" for the competitive part of the scene.

Ok, maybe "selfish" wasn't the best word to use, sorry about that, but besides that, it was merely an observation with no intention to judge anybody. I don't blame the established players for seeking their own interests first. New players just should be aware of what to (not) expect from them.

I second that Johnny_cz

Quakeworld is one of the coolest/best games ever made?

Answer: Yes

Its probably the FPS that require the highest level of skillset?

Answer: Yes

Quakeworld has been around for so long that the game has set its standards?

Answer: Yes

Its free?

Answer: Yes

And because of all of the above this game should be really easy to get into and grow bigger...its nooby friendly?

Answer: NO

You will find bad leadership everywhere. I agree with Johnny_cz: the ppl that are doing coverage, pr and setting up leagues/tournaments etc in this community are mainly thinking about themselves and what they think is fun.

NQR3 and 4 was nooby friendly because noobs got content and coverage. After that the growth stopped.

Why?

Bad leadership

But hey....at least the established scene got what they wanted....and thats what counts!

On the other hand the new players cannot expect they will get absolutely everything for free. I think they need to build their own leagues, websites and what not just as the current "QW generation" built theirs. The only thing the current players could be asked to do is to stay out of their way.

.....or imagine if someone who had been there all the way from the start could help the rookies out with all they needed....

Someone like you ?

no comment...

...but hey...use some tb3 swedes, danes and brits...that will work...

If the majority of players just opened their eyes and realized that it's not a "so fucking big" step to take to help out with something, then we wouldn't have this conversation.

Just to make my point with a made up example: Regular players, even tournament leaders, actually believe that because ruleset smackdown says you can't use a modified backpack mdl, they can't allow that in a tournament although everyone wants it. Just ignore the message... It's too far fetched

I love how Link is totally oblivious to the fact that this game is much older than many of the kids that start playing online today are.
They will play the latest games that the ppl at school talk about.

Also, please tell me who are the noobs in this division http://nqr.quakeworld.nu/nqr3/division.php?id=3
Even back then, in nqr3, the interest was dwindling and most of those guys arent noobs, just players who didnt get very good from 96 and onwards.

And Johnny, what new players? The 5-10 who are new and hang around qwrookie from now and then?
You need a few thousand for what you are talking about, just like we started out.
It is actually quite crazy that you even bring up something so utopian...

Hello fellow dinosaur...you sure make justice to that term. I wont be voting for you, or your fellow raptors, as inventor of the month

Lets do a mind experiment just for the fun of it and see how it would work on those kids you talk about:

At the school I work, i could get like....30 kids on the PC rooms to LAN up, but then i have to leave that job afterwards because i will get raped by overprotecting parents who dont know shit about videogames.

Anyway, i settle them down and launch qw for them, helping'em out with everything they need. They would go: "quakeworld? wtf is that? ive heard about quakelive and quake 4 and shit but quakeworld?"

Then i just take 5 mins and tell them about gaming history and how this is the mother of all FPS's (not the grandfather...i didnt say that) and show them just what this game can do. Remember, these kids will get very surprised when they find out that an "old game" like this rox this much.

Then you let'em play all at LAN together for some hours and what will you get? You will get just what every dinosaur here got back in 1997......the rest is as you say: history.

Now if there is a nice rookie scene for these (ladders etc) 30 players who just got their brained blown away by the magic of quakeworld, then you got something good going that will grow.

I kid you not when i say: THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO TO GET THAT SPARK GOING.

So if Willgurht can get this thing going and you add that with some "rookie-qw-scene-web-thing-or-whatever"...then all you need is to look for that spark.

Im not saying you need a school with 30 kids etc, just saying that if you got a chance to get some 13-15 year old kids to get together and you can organize something for them, anywhere, it can be just what the doctor ordered.

Remember, if you are 35-40 years old, and you are a gamer with lots of experience in the field, these kids will look up to you! They will go: "hey, this old fart is cool, he knows fps and shit!". Then, after you trash them 99 - -8 on dm4 and show of you what you can do in this game, then you are the Emperor of the room.

"You wanna be as good as this kid? Well, it took me 6-7 years to get this good, and i am still not one of the best players. This is the ultimate FPS of all time, if you are good at this, you are among the best in the world."

Imagine what this does to a teenager when he finds out the old fart is a FPS god.

And you have to start promoting this to the 13-15 year olds, maybe even younger, coz you need to break the game in to the kids that early. That way they get the chance to compare QW with all the other games they start to explore in this age.

And to do that yo need to get in touch with them. I get in touch with them coz of the work/school thing, but there must be A TON of places on the world wide web were you can reach em.

But you need ppl who wants to make a real project out of this.

Setting up another EQL is not the answer

Would it not be more fun to CREATE something of all the knowledge we got now instead of just reload the SAME CRAP WE ALWAYS DO JUST COZ WE WANT TO PLAY SOMETHING WE ALREADY PLAYED 100000000 TIMES?

HOW ABOUT SOME FRESH CHANGE?

HOW ABOUT MAKING IT GROW AGAIN?

Oh what the hell...who listens to the lame norwegian anyway!

"Link...we swedes in the NQR crew decided to make it a 5 map league...you got overvoted on this one"

"Ok...good bye and good luck"

Fuck this....its late....zzzzzzleep tight

I have always listened but to be honest niether you nor anyone else have really set this up, ever.
If it is that easy how come noone tried it?
qw4ever? qwrewinded?
The NQR season you keep mention dont even include alot of noobs so thats just plain wrong to bring them up.
Coverage wise I think I have tried to step it up during this EQL season as well.

And I dont get all the complaining either. Everyone is free to do what they want in this scene.
I have chosen to keep running EQL in an old fashion TB3 way because thats what the old players want.
We even took a step back to let the scene run a few mix leagues to see what would happen with that.
Sadly, the clan scene died even more and it really didnt draw many rookies attention either since even div2 was too high skilled and there were not enough players for a div3.

Also, there is always some 1on1 classic or kenya going on. This is where most rookies would show up, and they are what? Max 20 in thunderdome? Where are all the new players that supposedly will come if we use new formats and maps?

But if you, or anyone else, have a lot of contact with teenagers, then you should ofcourse show them qw.
The risk is still that they will be tempted to play all latest games that other kids play.
Also, you forget about the whole gaming console market, you dont even play QW on those xboxes and playstations. Not to mention tablets, cellphones etc...

Well i guess youre just wandering helpless around waiting for that asteroid...

And youre right, its a free world, its the only thing i agree with in your reply.