Hi,

Im wondering one thing and how you guys thinking of putting one of the TB3-TB5 maps
Off the map pool (Dm6) and putting in bravado.

I saw a 1day tournament on that map (bravado) which had this signups:

1. RaggA
2. azruioooo
3. Drake
4. gloomy
5. rio
6. drowsy
7. 40Days
8. Bls
9. 23y
10. bps if possible
11. VVD
12. z0mbie90
13. Tsobo
14. Baresi
15. Murz1k
16. SaZ

Im feeling that its not many who like love that map, but anyway its the new map in this tournament.

My question is if you see things objectively, ofc me and many other players dont like all maps equally much
and vs some opponents we would like to play for example DM6 as first choice.

Is it correct to take away one of the big maps even if procentually it was played less then the others,
even though it is played?

Like VVD put some % up there and it was like 7 this and 11 or 13 that, whats next, to exclude more
of the TB3/TB5?

Ofc some ppl would take advantage vs certain opponents to play for example dm6,
why take that chance away?

What do you guys think of putting all TB5 back and include a kenya like bravado or one more
and ofc free of choice for anyone?

Best Regards to all QW:ers out there!

Greco

I think its good that we change things around a bit. And that somebody dare to do it.
That said - I'd rather see Dm2 long gone before Dm6. You see? Its all personal preferences.
But its only one tournament, its not for infinity.

From what I've picked up from you writing in chat in quakeworld, it seems more like a
witch hunt going after VVD/Thunderdome rather than being objective and making a case.
I might be wrong and missing some discussions...

Give the guy some credit for actually taking the time setting up a tournament at all,
and have the guts to actually make decisions wheter you, me or 3-6-10 people dont like it.

I challenge you to start a tournament, with all your map-preferences and personally follow up all the players signing up, making sure they play their game.

You've been around long enough to remember when ztndm3 and aerowalk came around
and shook things up. Changes are very seldom a favorite among the familiar.
But is it really so bad to give new maps a try? If it doesnt work, then at least we tried.

Is it correct to take away one of the big maps: Yes.
What do you guys think of putting all TB5 back: I would like to see more tournaments and changes.

I look forward to participating in your tournament.

I like Bravado.

All creds for VVD putting it up for sure.

But the question was more like you said, set up a tournament with my preferences only
or make it more for all (which also gonna include maps i hate)?

Thats what i ment with objective kinda look .

>> Im feeling that its not many who like love that map, but anyway its the new map in this tournament.
Translation: you do not like it, and you extrapolate it to the rest of the population.

Hard fact: dm6 was the least played map.

>>Is it correct to take away one of the big maps even if procentually it was played less then the others,
>>even though it is played?

Yes.

>>Ofc some ppl would take advantage vs certain opponents to play for example dm6,
>>why take that chance away?

Life is not fair. Learn new maps.

>> What do you guys think of putting all TB5 back and include a kenya like bravado or one more
>> and ofc free of choice for anyone?

How about this:
A map pool of 15 maps. Each player removes 5 maps from the pool at the start of the match.
Then they play the rest BO5.

>> But the question was more like you said, set up a tournament with my preferences only
or make it more for all (which also gonna include maps i hate)?

You cannot make all people happy at the same time. Some prefer dmX crap only, some want an aerowalk tourney only,
some like one-day tourneys, some ppl like long tourneys like Thunderdome, etc.

Just organize your own tournaments, and you will see how it goes. You are also guaranteed to receive feedback

2 threads about this now?

If you keep TB5 and add another map on top of that, what you will get is rigid old players picking dm6 over 'the new map' (say, bravado). The people who bother to learn the new map will see it drop to the least played when you account for all the typical picking preferences and so on. Either that or dm6 remains the least picked, but people still feel compelled to practice/play it because it's in the pool.

Basically it creates a divide between "how rigid old players pick maps" and "how rookies or more open players pick maps". Map picks within matches become about what generation you come from rather than what your best maps are. If you refuse to learn new maps they're obviously not your best.

This is why tournaments try to have small non-exhaustive map pools.

I'm sure everyone has noticed that players coming from other games are focused on aerowalk/ztndm3? dm6, dm4 and dm2 are almost the opposite - only long time qw players put these maps on a pedestal, even though they have their merits and they're very unique. This is valuable in filling out a map pool - bravado is closer to aerowalk/ztndm3 than dm6 is... but the fact remains that dm6 was unpopular and a lot of people (myself included) don't mind leaving it out for a bit. I "get" the qw-only maps, but I really only respect dm2 and dm4 at the moment.

If people like dm6 so much, maybe they should have picked it more in the matches used to drive the recent change?

Maybe we should have more tournaments (but have them smaller/shorter)? I don't get why we spend several weeks or months on "the one tournament going on" when jehar can throw together something about as interesting in an afternoon.

What Baresi said, basically.

Furthermore, I think that the 1on1 community playing the 5 same maps for eternity would be a huge shame. I also think that if any of the old maps permanently disappeared that would also be a shame; personally I hope to see dm6 return in the next season of Thunderdome. I would also like to see other impermanent changes to map pools from time to time.

The way some people have reacted to this season's map pool is akin to how I would have imagined QW players reacting if railgun was implemented across all servers. I understand that it's possible to be passionate about certain maps, and thus become disappointed if they don't feature in one season of one tournament, but please, it's one season. Constant whining about it; refusing to play the map by standing still for 10 minutes while whining about VVD; refusing to participate in the tournament at all: this is selfish behaviour plain and simple, which diminishes confidence in your opinion.

You've touched on some uncharted water for qw theorycrafting!
Which is worse: the railgun or dm6?

Ahhhrrrrgh!! Now I have railguns and dm6 in the same part of my brain! Ow! Ow! Ow! Get it out!!!!

Railgun is definately worse than dm6.