Yes maybe there are too many maps to learn. I think you should atleast pick the true customs like schloss/grim/x/y. Remove cmt4/3. Use cmt1,3,5. Add the best tdm maps.

No! Dont remove cmt3/4.

add some suitable tf and ctf maps with dmm4 4on4.. for real!

As always the map discussion goes "nowhere".

I suggest clans do a pre-signup and tell what particular maps they want. By that I mean the 2-3 maps they REALLY want. The rest shouldnt matter, since it will be 20 maps anyway.

Then I know how many clans that wanna do this, and I can also give feedback if your maps got accepted. I am only saying this so we dont get povdmm4, e1m7 and e4m6 as maps. I think you all know what I mean.

But I need a number of players/clans before we waste more time on this, so far I dont count many

wth?! why not e4m6?!

makes it more exciting

sorry i fail to see how it is exciting to have everything you need in 1 room, wouldn't that make it extremely not-exciting?

Actually there is some quads and shaft in other rooms too. Its like most episode 4 maps, too big and too many powerups. And that main room has water so there's like 100 discharges per match

which is so much more fun than dm2-maplocks!

Someone link me a LEET E4M6 demo please.

e2m5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

pg: Ask someone from Quake-a-holics: #qh. They used to trash ppl at e4m6.

Hi FlePser, still playing CTF? :>

I just got an idea that i think will work for everyone. What I am suggestion is a copy of Indoor Football Scandinavia (futsal).

We arrange a series of tournaments, lets say 6-7 tournaments (or whatever). Each tournament have 3 maps. 3 different maps each tournament, never the same maps. The 6-7 tournaments is registered as a season. Let's say we call it "Season 1".

In each tournament we have 8 or 16 teams that advance to playoffs (depends on number of teams signing up).

6 points = The winner
5 points = Runner up
3 points = semifinal
2 points = Quarterfinal
1 point = 1/8-final

Then we have list of all clans participating, and at the top of that list is the clan with the most points.

Clans only sign up for one tournament at a time.
Players can only play for ONE clan each tournament.
Players can play for different clans during the season, but only for ONE clan each tournament.
Clans can register up to 10 players during all season (in others words: players can be registered in several clans)
You only need to register your clan/players at signup for each tournament.
The group drawing is totally random each tournament (no seeding order).
The Tournament Tree will be set BEFORE the drawings.

This system got many advantages:

There can be a total anarchy when it comes to clan names. You can name your clan whatever you want for each tournament. So if you win 6 tournaments with 6 different clan names, then you got 6 clans with 6 points each. But if you care about the points, you stick to the same clan name, because 36 (6x6) points is better

You dont have to sign up for a tournament you dont like (coz the maps suxor or whatever), but still you can do well or even win the season. Let's for example say you win 3 tournaments, and dont play the rest. Then you got 18 points. You also get 18 points if you go to the semifinal in each tournament (6x3points). This means that this system is good for everyone, no matter what your ambition level are.

If a big number of clans for one reason or another dont sign up for a particular tournament, they just give easy points to the few that signed up. If for example only 8 clans sign up, then they already got 2 points each, before even playing (top 8 clans get 2 points each: Quarterfinal).

As I see it, this system only got ADVANTAGES.

The clan list would look something like this:

Clan Name Tournaments Points
------------------------------------------------------
Clan X 4 10
Clan X 2 9
Clan X 3 8
Clan X 1 6
Clan X 4 6
Clan X 4 5
etc....

The tournament layout when it comes to maps, can then be something like this:

Tournament 1: cmt1 cmt2 cmt3
Tournament 2: cmt4 cmt5b dm15
Tournament 3: e1m3tdm, e1m5tdm, e1m6tdm
Tournament 4: e2m2tdm, e2m7tdm, e3m2tdm
Tournament 5: e3m3tdmb, e3m6tdm, e3m7tdm
Tournament 6: schloss, grim, aris
etc....

This is just an example, it could be any maps, any time. This tournament will also never get hard "time-issues", because the tournament system is very flexible. It will also be much easier to get your favorite map into a tournament.

Feedback plz...

I like the fact that this forces the clans to play a lot of maps. I have no comment on the maps themselves. I dont like the fact that you can switch clans. It makes the tournament kind of like pracs/mixes..

Well, I think the seriousness of clan/players is up to themselves too choose. Maybe this is the best ways to acheive goal #1: Get ppl to play 4on4 on different maps.

Serouis clans will stick to their players, but the nice thing is that unserious players/clans also can participate, within the rules of coz.

This should only mean activity.

But, fakenicking will not be tolerated.

The maps was just an example. It could be anything really.

I think the best thing to do is to split up the "most familiar" custom maps and spread them around in each tournament. Maps like cmt1, cmt3, cmt4, e2m2tdm and schloss should not be in the same tournament. If you take these maps and put them in the same tournament, you can risk some lower signups in a tournament with, lets say: e1m3tdm, dm15, midcit as maps.

You could spread them out in each tournament, and then for example draw the rest, or whatever.

actually, this system sounds cool! gives more chances to get points in one season

NO-ONE IS FORCING YOU TO PLAY.

SSC will attend for sure, no matter what the maps are since we all love custom maps. (well e3m7tdm felt really bad, one team just camped tower-rl + quad and the other team end-rl with powerups. One player was enough to guard the start-end teleport by flooding the start-ga area. Nothing really happened since every spawn was able to get away...)

Sounds like a normal e3m7 game to me :>

Every spawn got away? That's poor camping my friend :> Doesnt matter if its e3m7 or e3m7tdm, you are still camping the same places, only difference is: you can escape nmy penta. You can not escape nmy penta on e3m7 if you are up against players with e3m7-routine. But with teleporters connected, and new way from GL to Lava-bridge, you can infact escape.

When you say both teams just camped each area, well, that will just be amplified in the original version. With e3m7tdm however, you got some options. Isnt that better? Or do you prefer the usual RA/end camping, then get Penta, then gg? :>

At least in the original version start-spawns are trying to flood the tower-rl even succesfully at times, but in tdm-version they don't even bother to try to take a hold of the tower-area. All flee to the end-rl through the tele and stay there. Eventually there are no spawning players. Basically the whole team just sits in the end-rl guarding the powerups. If you get quad you want to play safe and stay in the end so enemy isn't able to sneak there.
If you got also the tower-rl under control then I admit there are more options for the other team to come back to the game (at least more hide-and-seek options).

Bear in mind that I have a solid experience of 2 whole 4on4-rounds played on e3m7tdm.. :e
Still I (or anyone in SSC for that matter) don't like it very much. I am maybe biased yes, but I'd still like to give the map a few shots, though I think the gameplay is going to be the same every time.

I agree that the start will be less caothic if the teams spawn each area (tower and end). But if a team spawns both places, then the start is not very different. And yeah, you get less kills because ppl are not forced to go throug RL-Tower anymore, so the spawn-heaven there is probably reduced some.

I also agree that some of the charm with e3m7 is the huge spawncount at RL-Tower. A map lock with e3m7tdm wont be much different though, it just means that one player needs to sweep around the map some more. And the Quad at end is now more stealable.

As a e3m7-lover I see your point, though I hope that a tdm version can bring more fans to e3m7. But as I said before, if both teams agrees to play original version, there should not be a problem doing so. I reckon 2 teams that loves the map will prolly play the original, and that ppl who hate it want the tdm-version, coz they dont only wanna spawn for 20 mins :>

Anyway, only way to get feedback/experience is to play some, so let's see if that happens

I am setting up a potential map list here, plz add your 4on4 maps that you wanna play 4on4 on, so that we can get an overview. About the TDM maps: Remember that the original version also can be played:

1 RL maps:
-------------
grim
e1m3tdm
e1m5tdm
e1m6tdm
e3m2tdm

2 RL maps:
-------------
aris
midcit
schloss
e3m3tdmb
e3m7tdm

RL/LG maps:
--------------
cmt1b
cmt2
cmt3
cmt4
cmt5b
dm15
e2m2tdm
e2m7tdm
e3m6tdm
e4m3tdm


...and what else you want?

As you can see, it would be nice with more 1RL/2RL-maps. In a tournament, I think the 3 maps should contain each from one category (like tb3): 1RL / 2RL / RL+LG ... or does that suck? :>

Personally, i don't like any tdm map, so it would be better to have original maps in list with remembing that TDM version also can be played.
And add UKPAK2 plz.

Do you know the history of why e1m2 made it? In the old days - we are talking 9 years ago - a lot of different episode maps were played during clan wars. We now know that the only episode map that made it, for competive 4on4, was e1m2. Why e1m2? Ppl will say: "because this clearly was the best episode map for 4on4". Thats true, the map has a good design, ok balance and the right map size. Map's like e1m3, e3m2, e3m3, e3m7 etc also had the right size. But they had other issues that made it impossible to enlist on of these maps to become a tb3-map.

e3m2 only got 1 RL and a single armor. Not even a SNG. So it got to be a "camp RL and YA" map. Kind of boring, because the mapdesign did not favor any comeback attacks.

e3m3 and e3m7 had serious maplock issues, welcoming spawnfrag heaven.

e1m3 however, was a map that was similar to e1m2 in every way, except one little thing that destroyed the map totally: Only one entrance to YA/MEGA/SNG. So if you had the lead, just get everyone there and gg. In the TDM version, this has been fixed, and the map, as I see it, is just as good as e1m2 when it comes to 4on4.

Imagine if this had been fixed in 1997. Well, it didnt. Just take a look at how poor the ID maps were for 4on4: Only 2 maps made it from their DM maps: dm2 and dm3. Dm2 is to this day even hated by many ppl, they think it is bad for 4on4. So that really leaves you with A SINGLE MAP from the original ID maps that eventually turned out nice for 4on4. ID didnt make any maps for 4on4, claiming otherwise and you need to re-evalute your qw-intelligence :>

So when you say you dont like any TDM maps, meaning you think e1m3 is better than e1m3tdm, then I must ask myself: "Do this dude even know what he is talking about? Should I listen to him?".

That's the kind of things I need to take in consideration before I say yes or no to stuff.

Here is a e1m3tdm demo for you:

http://www.challenge-tv.com/index.php?mode=demodetail&demo=23227 (HF vs OEKS)

This is the best game ever produced on e1m3/e1m3tdm, and that should say a lot. I cant think of anything that can make someone say: e1m2 is much better than e1m3tdm for 4on4. Then you are just biased.

Just explain to me why e1m3 is better than e1m3tdm, and I will consider it again



btw: UKPAK2 is a RL/LG map?

How about a comedy round on q1dm17, dmm8, instagib? \o/

No more rapecloset for Slaughter :cry:

If enough ppl sign up manny, why not? I just got to get this first tournament working, then anything is possible :>

UKPAK2 is a RL/LG map.

From episode maps i prefer e1m2, e2m2 and e3m7.
I tried e2m2tdm, e3m7tdm and 2 or 3 more tdm versions and delete it from my HD after it.
There are some diffirent maps we have now. Some maps r easy to maplock and starting spawnfrag heaven, some r not.
DM2 for example. You need good tp for lock it and perfect tp for do comeback.
With TDM versions you do:
1) you fix ID maps. (ID is the Creed for many players)
2) you make these maps simply for play. (the point is - these maps don't need for any fixes)

I have nothing against doing e1m3 playable.
But i think you need to do changes in one map, give a name for it, promote it; and after became this map popular do any fixes in other map.

From my point e2m2 and e3m7 r perfect and don't need any fixes.

I like totally new maps. So if any mapper sees that their map isnt included. POST!

If there's flintheart-locs for it, I'll play it