I had an idea recently (though heavily influenced by others so I don't want any personal credit / criticism!). A long-standing issue in the scene is 'the big 3' and how (arguably) overplayed they are. There's been numerous attempts to kick this obsession, mostly focusing on custom map tournaments and introducing the most popular custom maps into the major leagues. Success has, so far, been varied. I know Link isn't satisfied yet (sign up for qw4ever!) and cmt4 still isn't seeing the kind of affection in Euroland as it did in the UK during the glory years. Anyway, enough of that.

How about looking to change the way TB3 plays itself? I know strategies are still 'evolving' (somehow!), but games generally follow the same patterns and strategies. What if every game were different? Keep the rules the same. Keep the maps the same. Just tweak a few things so games are less predictable. Sort of like Fischer random chess (though I don't play chess).

So, what do we change? I'm not sure. Things that came to mind at first were:

* Random delay on powerups (maybe +/- 5s). There'd be less emphasis on timing and more on sustained control.
* Introduce extra (random) spawn points, maybe 1 or 2, that remain fixed for one game only.
* Change the value of armours slightly or swap them around, so that the importance of an area is affected (but not so much it ruins the map).

That's all that came to mind, but that's the idea. One of those would affect the game slightly, but hopefully not make it any 'easier' or less fun. Just different, encouraging strategies that adapt and a shift away from the recurring ('opening book') patterns. It'd be really easy to implement, too (though saying that, last I heard the KTPro source was in limbo). Wouldn't require extra servers or downloads.

So that's been on my mind so I've decided to share it. I'm not TB3-bashing (I'd love to play any quake but my connection won't let me); just suggesting a little mod-project that AFAIK hasn't been tried before.

-qmole

hmm.. very nice idea.. of a mod. let's make a server with these modifications and test the results

* Random delay on powerups (maybe +/- 5s). -> nice!
* Swap armour around -> nice!

* Introduce extra (random) spawn points -> don't know about this.. sounds tricky, a good coder might implement this. by random do you reffer to random placement?

i suggest creating 8 new predefined spawn points per map (using .ent files) and the game will choose 2 of them randomly, because choosing a random placement for spawn points might have unwanted results

In mixed games it's all about Tb1 (dm3)
It's killing me. I just don't have the balls to play 10 dm3s in a row. I don't know how the other guys can handle that, especially ones playing 10 mixed games in daily basis (with a fake nick).

Anyway, I'd love to have randomly selected spawnpoints for weapons, armors and powerups. Spawnpoints would be randomly selected at the start of a map (before prewar mayby so people could peep where the goodies are). So, quad could be where RA normally is, RA in water, a.s.o.

But I'd rather play other maps. But I like the idea.

lol'!@?!?@?!@? trying to kill quake? IF you don't like tb3 don't play them and make a map with your own stuff on it.

One smart man said a nice thing once:

Don't fix it if it aint broke



Changing timing of items, removes the speed of the game (you can't time items so you don't need to bunnyhop to get armor/weapon/powerup in time) you can't build up tactics cuz the game is based on lucky spawns/weapon spawns.

BG

in KTX you _can_ change so the quad/pent/ring will come 5 seconds earlier/later
just use that for starters? switch to KTX and try these settings in tournament games?

timerjammer, gg... sucked horseballs when it was used, and most probably still does.

btw why powerup timerjammer sux, can anyone do extended explanation? because i think timerjammer may reduce map lock by one team, and give chance for other team. but still wanna know why timerjammer sux or not sux.

When using timerjammer the lucky one gets the Q, no more sneak attacks. I'd suppose it's kind of frustrating to sit there and just wait the Q to appear, and when it appears you look another direction and some lucky guy grabs it.

pek.. your reasoning about this issue is way too minimalistic

Why would we want to remove an element of skill, timing and teamplay from the game and replace it with one of sheer luck? It would be like playing football, only to find that every time you went to shoot, the goal had moved a few metres to one side.

maybe some mix bot like rpickup can be configured to choose a map?
like when a mix is 8/8 it randomly chooses a map different from tb3..

for sure the signing up players have to accept the bots choice and play the map,
no matter if they know it or not.. that way mixes might be not that predictable,
and more fun (than trying to get this effect by modifying current qw standards).

i'd love to try out 'enraged' in a 4on4.. :b

I've tried to do some kenya mixeds on #mix.qw but none showed up.

After 10 dm3s I tend to flood "next map plz!" and I get answers like "majority rulez!"

luck? wtf. just goto quad 5 seconds earlier. so if u want guarantee a team quad, just secure quad zone for more time. but while u do this, other zones become less secure, this give chance for other team to get some rl+armor and unlock map. So imo powerup timerjammer is more skilled since u need better communication with teammates to grab quad spawn time.

Just my'n opinion, i'm not going to break current tdm rules.

you tried that right after trying a regular mix, nobody showed up for that either. probably just a bad time to start a mix.

(sidenote: start a mix with a special map by typing !startmix <whatever> e.g. !startmix kenya or !startmix e1m8)

Interesting... Qw is sure in need of some change. I cant do it my self (code and stuff) but i sure wanna try out some new ideas: maps, quadtimer, armourswitching etc... Things that can make the game more fun, and make the game live longer

haha

*powerup randomness , i don't like. even now it's often a ffa, with last man standing at quadspawn.
*random spawnpoints, could have a nice effect
*random armours and items, hum, i would be scared i think to see such disorder in the map, like someone didn't clean up his room/map

The reason for people playing TB3 can't just be the basic layout of the map - it's everything combined and the combo that offers the gameplay these old maps have. If people won't play CMT3 they sure as hell won't play DM3 with random items or whatever. I think you should all join Link's league and find some totally "new" maps that the community can play (and replace the awful cmt4 with).

I didn't mean to start a TB3 debate :p The idea wasn't "stop playing TB3"; quite the opposite. If TB3 works, well maybe *more* TB3 will work too? I was hoping for more suggestions, not reasons why the first thing that came off the top of my head won't work. Sure it's moving the goalposts, but it's still the same game? The on-screen clock was grudgingly introduced because, after so long, people were still finding ways to time items. Powerup timers were banned right away. What's the problem with powerup jammers again?

I'm not suggesting replacing or 'fixing' TB3. Relax.

I think so too, quadtiming doesn't have to change big time, but 3 seconds +/- would be fun
random spawnstuff I don't understand really, why change the spawnpoints?
move armors etc will only have a negative effect I think, since defending/attacking certain places has their tactics, and putting pent on ra-top(dm3) will just make that room useless etc
just bring in more custom tdm-maps instead

I've got an idea.

DM6 - replace GA with YA. Bingo! No more RA-camping! \o/

yepp.. would be a nice addition

ya + mega, nice addition, camp ya.

add so that a ring spawns randomly (time/location) every other minute on dm3!

decrease players maxhealth with 1p. every 5 seconds he stays alive! (not the 250 limit, but the 100limit for normal health pax). Someone owning for a few minutes would be a lot weaker!

why oh why do people want to change dm4?
it is a great map as it is!
as for dm6 I wouldn't mind the ga being a yellow armour instead
or trade the sg-ammo in big for rockets

Worst bottom of the barrel idea ever!


Heres a better idea, make a new map, then have a small online tourney on it, and everyone only gets 2 weeks to practice it.. not a great idea, but a better idea.