That sucks for griffin.

slabi - lacsap (xterm) is scheduled for today (Thursday) @ 21:00 CET

slabi - xterm is sheduled tonight 21:00 CET

tom... please...

sup mate no option for delete comments

griffin refuses to play???

Doh, this tournament was going way2smooth so far, so yeah that's the punishement for it.
But why cry for one little loss, there are still such a great names in this competition, most of the upcoming matches will be $$$ hot $$$, so bring it on!

griffin is selfpwnd!

Some serious bad news tho:/

For howlong will we miss delitel? I mean it's really a shame if semis have to end like this:/
Griffin refused to cge? what? Secret reason? So the griffin vs other great names were coming nearby and he ran? :///

Where is QWdrama when we need it?!!11

griffin has his reasons. if you care you can ask him, and if he cares he can tell you. I'm very disappointed in the outcome, but it is history now :] I think we can say that cge is one of the strongest psy-ops players, making dag ragequit years ago, and now this

Heh, that's nice of you to "disqualify" him after he quit. Kinda like firing someone after they quit a job. Show some fucking dignity, you sad little excuse of a human being. The world doesn't revolve around you or your QW tourney.

It's a double elimination tournament. Refusing to play in the wb is not equivalent to quitting, unless he said that he wasn't going to play in the lb too.

dakoth, relax. geez.

I don't understand why did you disqualify him?

I knew people would get upset about this. I am very upset about this myself. But there is no other way. In any other tournament in any other sport, single-elimination or double-elimination or quadruple elimination or whatever, if you refuse to play that is automatic disqualification.

Would I like griffin to play? Of course! Was it my choice that he did not want to play? No, it was not.

OK, look, here's the full story;
1) griffin got bored and didn't wanna play anymore.
2) cage whined in #gtg to play the game (griffin ignored him)
3) cage whined at mrlame to find griffin for him
4) mrlame whined at griffin to do something about it because he couldn't stand cage's whining
5) griffin told phil he quit the league (and gave reasons)
6) phil goes into berserk mode and whines at griffin for ruining his tourney in private, and then "disqualifies" him and attempts to publicly humiliate him in a newspost at qw.nu
7) You know the rest.

griffin is the champ

I don't think this newspost contains any sort of offense towards anyone, it simply states the facts.
And disqualification of anyone who without any serious reason decides to not face his opponent is as mentioned before very standard everywhere and makes perfect sense, whoever the disqualified person is.

Dakoth, the full objective story is:
1) griffin got bored and didn't wanna play anymore.
2) he got automatically disqualified, just as anyone else would in any other tournament.
End Of Story.

If you want to bring in whine and whatever else into it, go ahead, but it is not part of the official story _at_all_, no matter how much you think it is. And if you want (and griffin is ok with it), I can paste the log where I go into "berserk mode" (not) with griffin in private chat. But it is totally irrelevant to the "full story".

Thanks for your interest

edit: griffin never told me he "quit the league" and he never told me anything about what cge whined or mrlame whined, at all. The only thing he told me is he gives w.o. to cge because he does not want to play him because cge is "lame". As I said before, this was not my decision, this was griffin's decision.

Edited by !phil on 29 Aug 08 @ 16:48CET

Why he thinks cge is lame? wtf griffin please explain.

Uhm, in a duel tourney, giving a WO is pretty much like quitting, no? Unless you state that you clearly can't play that game but might be able to later. I don't think he was going to play the losers bracket game either, whoever he might have met there. He picked up QW again after what, a year of inactivity? Didn't take him long to figure out why he (and others of like mind, I might add) quit in the first place.

No offense Johnny, but I don't think your literary abilities are quite up to par if you can't see the hidden agenda in that news post. Placing the title "The Semifinals of Shame" on a news post and then going on to naming one of the contenders "disqualified because he didn't want to play" and the other as simply "walkover, too bad, maybe he'll be back later" is pretty hostile in my eyes, considering the first player quit the tourney (at least that's what he told me over ventrilo like 5 minutes after it happened - sorry, I trust him more than I trust you) because of his own personal reasons, and the second gave a WO for his own, personal reasons.

Disqualification implies that he did something wrong, but all he did was quit. If I was working at a place and I went to my boss and told him "Sorry, I'm gonna have to quit", he sure as hell wouldn't tell me "You can't quit - I'm firing you!". That's just childish. I guess I might be the only one seeing the hidden insult and bending of truth in that news post, but whatever. Have fun with your little qwdrama, byebye now.

But griffin didn't quit, he decided not to play one particular opponent.
And of course it's a "shame" if all semifinal matches result in w.o.

.qw qw is dead

c'mon fish get in the boat

dakoth, you are the one making "your little qwdrama" I'm just stating the facts and trying to be objective. I understand you are probably a friend of griffin and have your reasons, but please reconsider. I might have lost some faith in griffin, nevertheless I think he is a bigger man than you and he would not be making the excuses you are making for him such as "He picked up QW again after what, a year of inactivity?" He refused to play, and thats all he did, and anywhere you do that it is disqualification. Don't take it personally.

mix?

"I'm done with the tourney" (c) griffin

Facts my ass.

Why would I lie?

Perhaps it's just your admins who lied by omission to you then, because that's word for word what griffin told vloody. If so, then it appears it's just a misunderstanding, and I apologize.

But on the other hand, if vloody told you what griffin told him, I don't see how you could somehow interpret that into him deciding not to play one particular opponent like Johnny put it. The only conclusion I can or could draw from that lie/factchange is that you're trying to save face (but as I said at first, if vloody didn't tell you what griffin told him, this paragraph becomes obsolete).

I wasn't making any excuses however - I only stated the facts as I saw them. He hadn't played for a long time, he kicked ass and took names for a while, and then decided to drop out of the tourney. The end, as far as I'm concerned. You don't need an excuse to drop out of a tiny JFF tournament in a game you no longer play actively.

But you were right about one thing though; Griffin is a better man than I am. He has the patience to let things like this slide, while I have a tendency to lash out and cuss at idiots. I'll take a sheet out of his book and try to let this slide, whatever the outcome.

Pretty childish behaviour by dakoth here tbh. You talk about "showing dignity" - How respectful do you think it is to the other players (as well as the tourney/scene in general) to simply drop out of a tourney in a semifinal for a reason such as "i don't play this particular player because he is lame" ? Then why sign up in the first place? You seem to "talked for griffin" pretty good this far so maybe you can answer this too.

Also I don't quite understand what your hate towards the qw scene is all about? Just because you don't play it anymore(?) I don't see the point of totally dissing the game, some individuals, and this dm6 tourney, as you are with comments like "didn't take him long to figure out why he (and others of like mind, I might add) quit in the first place." What are you trying to achieve?

/lacsap (Don't know how many time I've registred those forum/lost password etc etc, therefor the "fed" nick)

I don't even know where to begin. There are a few cool players still around - at least there were when I was still playing - but in general the QW scene has changed quite a bit over the last 4-5 years, and I personally along with others that I know agree with me, don't like what it's become. So if I show little to no respect to those that remain in that scene I don't really care, as most of them have done little to earn that respect. If those who deserve my respect take offense from that I'm sorry - all I can say is that you are not the intended targets.

Griffin joined the tourney thinking it would be a fun deal (at least that's the impression I got). This tourney is (as far as I'm aware) a Just-For-Fun deal, and if for whatever reason you don't have fun playing it anymore, why should you? Should you just join and alt-tab to loose instead of giving a WO and dropping out? Isn't that even worse?

But all that is just my opinion - it has nothing to do with griffin himself - and it's all beside the point. The point is that he quit - and then he was disqualified like he broke some rule or something. If you want to call what he did lame, then call him lame, don't go around trying to twist some facts into what you want to make of it in an attempt to save face, or whatever.

All I meant with the "didn't take him long to figure out" comment was that he remembered why he (and others) didn't have fun playing the game anymore. Nothing more.

It's to bad griffin won't comment on the topic himself, but the reasons he has is most likely justified. griffin aka ara ? :F All i know for sure is that i want to see him play.

Edited by ruskie on 30 Aug 08 @ 11:34CET

As a fan of the game and as a spectator of the dm6 mania I was really happy to see griffin signing up. It's always good to see a qw superstar in action.
And allthough a rusty start he coming back to a nice form, then all of the sudden he quits. That's a bummer, coz now the games were really going to matter...
And yes the tourney was just for fun like everything in qw is, but when you sign up you agreed to participate. Why quit it when it becomes hot? Just like lacsap said, that's not showing 'dignity' toward the 'qw' scene. Ofcourse he doesn't have to give a rats ass about the qw 'scene', but why are you so upset then?

Ans what's with the 'people' that play qw? wtf... Imo if there is one game with a mature community it's qw. Ofcourse opinions differ and there are lamers, but nothing compared to any other game.
Can you explain what's wrong with the people that play qw? Probably one of the most dedicated scene a game has? Or is that the problem?

I just think he's fed up with the game coz .. after a while some games simply bore out. That's it probably.

You want my opinion on what's wrong with the QW scene? Look above. A gamer decides he doesn't want to play any more (for whatever reason - it shouldn't matter) and he's practically accused of breaking the rules. That's not a nice community in my book.

What's more, playing games in QW stopped being about having fun and started being about winning at any cost. I could never stand the rock@dm2 style of play and it's become more of a standard nowadays than ever before. It's like you're playing for $10,000 price money at some fancy ass official tournament. Fuck that. What QW had going for it was the fun and the sportsmanship. Toss that out the window and all you have is quake4 with uglier graphics and better physics.

Lets rewind to NQR. Once upon a time a gamer in the QW community could be taken at his word, but we gave our word we would never field our best lineup and we were ignored. As a result, GTG crumbled, because no one wants to play in div1 with a div3 lineup.

That's just a few examples. I still have fun while playing QW with friends, but go beyond that it gets pretty fucking boring with all the CS players and everyone playing like it's the freaking world cup. Some even going so far as pushing for a WO when they are the ones delaying the game (yes, that's happened to us too).

Don't mistake my non-caring for the community for a complete ignorance of what was once a great game, though. I remember the lost days, and I miss them. I still care about this game, like I would care about my old grandmother that passed away. But it's just as dead and buried as she is, as far as I'm concerned. But most importantly, I care about what people say about my friends, and that's where this whole mess got started.

Clear enough for ya?

Vloody didn't tell me anything, I spoke to griffin directly. edit: Vloody is not even admin of dm6mania -- although I appreciate him helping out anyway. edit: If anyone is trying to save face, it is you trying to save griffin's face. Which, as I said before, griffin himself would never do (or at least has never done so far.)

Edited by !phil on 30 Aug 08 @ 18:43CET

Edited by !phil on 30 Aug 08 @ 18:48CET

And no, this tourney is not a "just for fun" deal. No official tournament is a "just for fun" deal. Unless, of course, you don't take anything seriously, in which case noone will take _you_ seriously in turn. If you fuck around with everything in your life and don't take anything seriously, including official tournaments, then so be it. That said, this tournament is as official as they come, as long as you are not a "i play just for fun because i don't have the nerves to play _to_win_".

I suggest reading: the Rookie Manifesto in my blog, and this: http://sirlin.net/ptw

edit: I said it once and I say it again: I rather see a 0-1 victory in 5 overtimes, than a 60-70 rush fest. The "just for fun" mentality is boring and pointless, and it results in exactly the kind of disappointments we see in the semi-finals of this tournament. When you play to win, you might not have fun, but you do a thousand times more to further the sport and the history of your competition, than with a million "jff" games.

Edited by !phil on 30 Aug 08 @ 18:51CET

Just a misunderstanding then. Griffin told Vloody that he quit, I just assumed he was an admin based on that. Like I said earlier then, I owe you an apology for going off the handle on that - you can only act on what information you are given, as did I. But I would say you owe Griffin an apology too, and a correction in that news post from "disqualification" to "quitting" or some such. But that's merely details. I don't think I would've bothered if it was me in the same position as Griffin, but it's easier to defend a friend than to defend oneself.

And as usual, those who support the CS gameplay completely misunderstand the mentality behind non-CS gameplay and drive it way overboard. There's a huge difference between playing to win and playing destructively. If you can't see the difference between the two then I'm sorry, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on that. You can play to win without camping the mega on dm6 until your opponent walks in on you.

i have to say im pretty dissapointed with you guys saying the word lame so many times and not refering to me. where is this scene going (

"You can play to win without camping the mega on dm6 until your opponent walks in on you." Rofl? Camping the mega on dm6 is actually the _hardest_ way to try and win dm6. And please lets not reduce this to a "playing to win means camping one spot" discussion because we both know playing to win is something else entirely. At the least, playing to win (as opposed to playing "just for fun" is not giving w.o. because you don't want to play anymore, and it is not whining afterwards for the obvious d.q. that follows. Maybe that's your idea of playing for fun.

griffin for president! : C

<3 patrik

"At the least, playing to win (as opposed to playing "just for fun"" -- and you can't play to win and have fun at the same time then? God, then I feel sorry for you. Playing all those games without having fun doing it. Pure torture.

The mega@dm6 was an obvious metaphor if you didn't catch that, just like rock@dm2. There are plenty of ways to play destructively in QW, all of them as boring and unattractive as the next. If you can't play to win and have fun at the same time then you don't deserve to win at all. What the WO/DQ has to do with this I have no idea... all I did was reply to a question placed to me, almost completely off-topic.

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. Not gonna bother replying to this line of discussion again, because it's obvious I'm not going to change your mind, and it's equally obvious you're not going to change mine.

i came buckets

Actually you can play to win while having fun, but very few people do. For most people it is a tough mental challenge, especially when the games are close. There's no such thing as playing destructively, as long as you are not using obvious cheats, etc. Unless, of course, you count giving w.o. because you don't want to play, as playing destructively, then yes griffin played destructively.

This has to do with the d.q. to show that if you are playing "just for fun" then don't be surprised to get thrown out of tournaments when you refuse to play someone cause you think he is "lame" because you should be playing to win, not playing for fun. Again, the two are not mutually exclusive, but the former is much more productive.

This dialog is not for your benefit but for other people who are curious.

I dont think phil ment to insult anyone by choosing the word disqualify. Dont see what the big deal is.
Ok and maybe cge is lame i dont know, but it is even more lame to just drop out this late in the tournament just because someone is lame.
Especially when your name is Griffin and people really wanna see you play
(me personally too who wasnt really following any QW-sites lately but suddenly saw
griffin playing and thought it was really fun to see)
And to talk about QW like it was some sort
of holy thing back in the past where no one was lame. I cant really see any difference back then and today. QW probably has one of the least lame communitys of all games still.

If anything I think people played to win MORE back then compared to now. The prestige was better then and it was more fun to try and win. Now it sometimes feel like people goes like "i lost, blah shit the same i dont care"... Many discussions has been made about the "for fun" thing and not playing CS etc..
Personally I think the competetive style.. when both players try everything possible to win is the most fun and exciting one. Both to play and to spectate.

LOL patrik, yes we all know you were the lamest of them all! and ironicly playing in dakoths clan?

The Semifinals of STFUPLZ

dunno if i was TeH lamest but atleast i stood for it!
alot of guys who are pritty lame and can't stand for it, thats some lame shit
won't u agree mrs raz0r

nope

Thought griffin was the last person who would drop out of a tourney like this tt

eh.. i ment yes i agree

plz dakoth ur embarrasing urself...

Who tha fuck are you to say how ppl should play qw?

This is a tournament if u wanna jump around and get raped on various servers in your spheretime thats ur problem...

Tournaments in my opinion is "do whatever u can to win". Point blank..

I enjoy CS games more than +forward games cuz i like the excitement and the tension especially as a spectator.. if u wanna se people do nice gibs spec some end games or povs whatever..

"2) cage whined in #gtg to play the game (griffin ignored him)
3) cage whined at mrlame to find griffin for him
4) mrlame whined at griffin to do something about it because he couldn't stand cage's whining"

Ehh are ju fkn joking with me? Mrlame was the one who told me "griffn mörkar dig" blabla havent told a word to him about it, why not show up at qh lan and show how cool ur are? retard ppl talking shit on internet is the shit! plz...

"3) cage whined at mrlame to find griffin for him" not true at all.... Guess u all can ask Mrlame about this..

dakoth is an emo boy who needs some slitwrist practice, or he's a QWdrama reporter in disguise trying to dramaspice the game up a bit more.

wow

I don't get it, qw is ultra competitive. The best of qw is the excitement, tension and mental game in serious duels. Play Quake2,3,4 whatever "for fun". Or join xs4all-ffa "for fun". So lame.

just lost a lot of respect for one of my all time favorites :<

qw,

serious shit

"Allt handlar om frags" (c)Beck

Never forget that people!

i shed a tear