THIS EQL IS A JOKE THE ADMINS ARE ALL STUPID AND SMELL!

Lots of new clans this season for sure, especially from Poland! I can't wait to see how it all pans out in 2 months!

The polish community needs a lot of praise for resurrecting their national tdm scene. Going from 3/4 teams in eql9/10 to 9!? teams in EQL11 and then being the most active tdm nation in qw

gl guys !!

Now all the new teams just NEED TO START PRACCING to make a real impact. Looks good, but I think we are in the wrong division, but the system didn't allow to request division 0, is it broken?

As you can see in the division list here, fix managed to request div0 for his team In A Blaze.

The (n) indicates the requested division

I guess the system only shows that option to those who it deems worthy.

This is gonna be a real kicker! Many games to be played, the more the better! I think Kingpin is gonna agree. But is "In a blaze" with Fix in a correct division?

No kudos to the Polish scene from me yet. Sure it's nice to see so many new (and old) clans from Poland, but as history has taught us, 75% of those Polish clans will NOT:
1) Be on IRC enough to make it easy to schedule games
2) Reply to messages in general
3) Remain active for the entire season
4) Speak English

Sorry for the shit-talk, but then again I guess it might motivate you to prove me wrong.

Oh, and great to see Dybbuk back!

Well, soma to be honest your clan didnt play too many games in ClanWarz, did it?
So pls save those pointers for your clan: u still have a game to play vs Rev, no matter it is for the 5th place. An official game is still an official game.
And have you had problems with communicating the Polish clans in CW? I assure you, we know a few English words too

BTW, we really need PANGELA proxy fixed asap or eql11 games will be lag games. Without it my pings everywhere outside scandinavia and russia are like doubled.

and when would you ever have to play outside scandinavia or russia? :S

Will be up till friday if not earlier.

About the Polish clans:
as far as I can tell, only Ax3 and M44 seems not that very high active as the rest. You can see dc, dc2, dark abbots, machinery, rev, rev2, 3tk praccing almost every day for the past 2-3 months......and there's always SOMEone from their team on the servers/irc.....

About the so-called DIV1:
Yes, it is a pity, DIV1 these days is nothing else than a handful of elite DIV0 clans with a bunch of DIV2s, but what can You do. Admins could either do DIV1 with 5-7 clans, DIV2 with another 7 clans, and the rest as it is.....

good luck.

Shortly: More divs thnx

why is it a pity cpe? I think it looks great! you guys should prepare to get raped by us :E when can we start playing? now already? xD

I didn't say I don't like it. We still get plenty of teams to compete with for points, except those few mentioned. What I meant is, that the true div1 times are gone now....

then maybe it's time for you and your boys in 3tk to take a step forward and fill a part of the gap?

handful of div0 clans? biggest joke this year, I count one clan that is perhaps going to beat every other team, the rest can be close games depending on how motivated and active the div2 teams will be in terms of practice vs better clans. But atm there's only one top clan in qw, fact.

Most teams in div1 have enough talent to fight for medal positions, but it takes a lot of prac to get better. You can't expect success if you're only willing to play the officials. If you want to get good in tdm you need to stop grinding pointless 2on2s and duels and start improving your individual tdm skills in 4on4 mixeds and your clan's tp in pracs.

haven't you heard? the past > the present

Seems to be the same kind of whine every time a tournament starts. It never gets old? As Valla said, I'm pretty sure every team have a chance to steal maps from eachother in div1 apart from maybe tVS who once again looks like a clear favorite. In the other divs, I'm pretty sure every team who puts their heart to it and play a bunch of pracs could do really good as well.

I'm sure, in time as long as tournaments keeps coming, that also tVS will be challenged.

"So called div1" - It might not be all die-hard div1 teams, but seriously when was it ever? I can't even remember when it was like that?

How I remember it, was that there was usually 4 top teams and then maybe a joker in form of a mix team. It was never stacked with div0 teams and there was a high amount of inconsistency, in terms of form from some of the teams. We had a lot of teams with very good players who some seasons were very active and then at other times, completely idle.

If someone could point out what really was "the best QW season", then I would very much like to take a look at it, because I seriously don't remember one standing above the others. I remember some that were crap, but what I mostly remember was 2-3 teams being so much better better than everyone else, It might have changed from season to season, but people jumped around more as well .

Today I see much of the same, these 3-4 teams being a lot better than everyone else, but if we look at a team like Slackers, they came second last season, yet their team is made up of players who played in div3 just 3 seasons ago.

As I see it, we have two options; 1, make a div0 with just the very best teams and then see them die out as there will be no proper competition at their lever, or 2, make a very large div1 that will make the top div2 have to develop their game and possible evolve into better teams. If the players can just stick together long enough, I'm sure some of the top div2 teams will be able to compete with todays top teams.

I think the bigger the divisions the better, instead of segregating the teams, we make them play vs more and better opponents and possible evolve into better teams, even in the lower divs. I at least know this from my own team, we usually only want to prac vs the teams in our own division, as there is no point in getting raped by someone we won't meet in officials. Now when the division is larger, we will have to face the better teams of our division and therefor we want to practice to beat them.

for crying out loud, did I whine somewhere? I only made a sentimental digression about the div1. I WANT TO PLAY WITH BETTER TEAMS. is it ok now?

It's quite ok but I really think that 4 divisions would serve us better. The clans like CCS (recently lost some crucial players) or DC2 and AX3 really belong to the 3rd div. Hopefully, this will not result in inactivy, but as far my opinion is concerned, this threat is really looming over the distance (for those misplaced lower-skilled teams of course).

However, we will comply with the admins' decision.

cpe, dunno if your reply was for me, but I wasn't implying that you were whining, I was just ranting about what people always seem to mention, and I would really like it if someone could point out the best qw season.

DC2 and AX3 is better than the teams in div3 and CCS came second in div4 of EQL10, and that was without those "crucial players".

CCS in div2... Who was that Eistein who made that? We are not playing practises. Some of them inactive. Maybe we can play only one official match per week.
Yes, we are playing for many years and we won last divs many times but we won't playing in div2. So sad.

I blame the Poles!

"Blame Canada! Blame Canada! For their beady little eyes..." ;D

i'm excited for this season, i for one am very happy with the decision of the eql admins to go with 3 divisions. i'm confident we (tks), can make some nice results happen!

RAMorYan, I really don't understand why you have such a big problem with your div2 placement?

If you look at the divisions, then div1 is made of teams that requested div1 and div2, while div2 is made up primarily of teams who requested div3, that results in there being no real div2.

So if you look at it that way then;
Division1 = div1+div2
Division2 = div3
Division3 = div4

Then there is your team, yes you did request div4, but I'll consider that an error on your part, as you did get 2nd place in div4 last season, hence you won yourself a well earned div3 placement. Now since Division2 = div3 this season, you are right where you belong.

I've read your comments about your team missing two of it's top players, Sector and seraph... but these players weren't even in your team last season, hence it makes no difference.

Your primary lineup last season was; zlt, tanker, RAMorYan, EpicFail - All players who are still on your roster. Oh and how many games did you lose in div4 last season? 1? and 4 maps in total? Ah yeah that's right.

Please tell me again why you should be in div3

too bad some people only play to win, and not for the fun of it

EpicFail dont wanna play. He's playing WoW.
Tanker broke his mouse and can't buy a new one.

Defcon is a new guy, but we can't play practices. We can play our official matches.

Dark Abbots is at our level when we can play with Seraph and Sector. But without them they can beat us I guess.
In a Blaze with fix? And those clan paras played very much practices. I think bloodpunch is better than us too...

Believe me, after 2-3 rape my mates wont be playing.

We wanna play a good matches against Dark Abbots, In a Blaze, Bloodpunch, Machinery, Paras, Osams!
Why can't you make div4 for a new ones: Quad at Home, Public Enemies, Pinches Tiranitos, cpm.qw, Dybbuk and maybe Fallen Angels, Mofo and Machinery??? 8 teams, 7 matches!

Make a div for div3 remains and Demolition Crew 2, ax3 and CCS! 8 teams, 7 matches!

More and MORE equal!

i guess ramy is right. we dont have much prac and without tanker epicfail and sector we are pretty helpless to win some matches in div2. If its possible put us in div3, if not, then lets start the fucking matches and lets get better.

If they dont play dont put them on your roster?
"Tanker broke his mouse and can't buy a new one."
haha, best excuse ever

POLSKA ZONDZI !

These is just the one swap I think you really need to do: CCS to div 3. Otherwise, they may just be inactive and disencouraged :/

whats wrong with that excuse johny ? i had the same problem for a long time, dont look down on the poor ppl, its fucking gay...

@Zalon "If someone could point out what really was "the best QW season", then I would very much like to take a look at it"

Smackdown 5 had these quarterfinalists IIRC. "Div1" was pretty competitive around that time.

FS
tVS
CMF
SR
LA
HF
ToT
RE

Edited by HangTime on 03 Mar 10 @ 01:21CET

Probably wasn't that different from now. Not all the hot names were hot at the same time. We were probably quite noobish still those days. Can't say I remember how it was but a wild guess would be that LA and SR were untouchable to the rest of that group. I guess HF and ToT were never that hot and don't even remember RE.

I'm not suggesting it was _that_ different, but there was a period around then (not necessarily that precise season) where the top division was fairly close. The "untouchable" LA still only scraped past RE 2-1 in the playoffs.

Glancing at NQR4 archive there are two div1 games listed on the frontpage (the final and a semifinal) which both ended 3-2 (SR>CMF and CMF>DS). Sure SR were the best clan but it was a close final and they also lost a couple of regular season games. Likewise in NQR5 DS played 5 maps in both semi and final.

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those guys that says "OMG I remember the good old days when all the superstars played, qw is all n00bs now". But at one stage there were about 5-6 clans that were more than capable of winning official games against others in that group.

Of course, div1 always had some weak clans in there with no chance to beat the top clans over the course of a full season, so no difference there. I was in one of them

Well I think there is 5-6 (if not more) clans right now in div1 that can win officials against each other.

the only reason tvs is untouched is because no other clan seems to prac more than them, hence no clan is decreasing the gap.. or actually probably fusion is and you can really see their results getting better and better.. and also tks, but they have a far way to go

#38: he can pay for his internet bill but not for a new mouse? that's what's wrong with it. it's ridiculous. also, what does he eat if he cannot get extra $25 for a new decent gaming mouse? e.g. a4tech mice are good enough and quite cheap.

wmo 1.1a $@!@%

@Blaze: How can you forget us? (redux!). I remember after playing you you said "We just got owned on dm2 by a team I have never heard of" hehe

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/screenshots/re_tvs_dm2.jpg
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/screenshots/redux_tvs_e1m2_nqr.jpg

HR had a good lineup at the time and so did ToT

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/screenshots/re_dm3_hf_123434.jpg

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/screenshots/redux_tot_dm3_too_easy.jpg

Cannot rem this clan but they had good players

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/screenshots/re_lotus_dm3.jpg
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/screenshots/re_lotus_dm2.jpg

btw, div's look cool to me.

We (Fusion) might actually get prac vs other people and not just SS and TVS!

Whats with teams that dont want to play teams they think will beat them???

That's the best thing about big divisions; the semantic change. "Div1 prac now" means 13 clans instead of 7, not counting the high div2 clans that will answer if you're in the bottom half of the table.

#47

There is a difference between a normal loss and a rape. You will get better playing versus better teams but getting raped is pointless. You wont get anything and thus cannot practising anything like takeovers or even getting a quad or a pent.

If you lose and get -2 2 4 and 12 frags each you probably only learned where the spawnpoints are and Im sure everyone knows that already. If you on the other hand lose and get 25 27 32 and 42 frags each then you could at least do something during the 20 mins and hopefully you practised attacking quad/ra/pent or whatever.

Finally you have the clans that are happy to play on the same low level and never really get any better but they are OK with that. Look at TKS they wanted to improve, pracced a lot and are now kinda good. Same with Fusion. On the other hand you have loads of clans in the lower division that has been there for years and are fine with that. No use in forcing them if they dont want to.

Losing with a rather large margin can be ok but getting raped, like 250-400 frags difference is just plain boring and a waste of everyones time.

Nah rape is not pointless.

Why are you being raped? its all about the first 5 mins really. Learn why you are being rapped from early on and do something about it!

Well serox, looking at those results, I can see why my memory has erased all traces of that ever happening. Looks like you really pwned us.

No Milton in those screenies ser, makes a difference

TVS were still shit hot back then. On dm2 they were one of the fav teams going!

Blaze, the wins vs you guys made our week

#50

vs too good clans you cant do anything, you must play clans that are a little better to become better, you wont become better from getting raped. end of story

Hooraytio, maybe thats why you have not got any better in 10 years?

You improve by playing better players. If you prac vs the very best you can you should be able to pick up some things!

I dont know if you cannot read or smth but i just said you will get better by playing vs better clans. It is just that rapes wont give you anything.

Also, I dont get why you have to get personal and comment on my level of play. Thats irrelevant since i never tried to become a div0-2 player but rather play at a low level and play a few games per week. To become very good i guess you have to put in some more time than a few hours per week at some point in your qw career.

I was joking about the 10 year thing, hence the smile.

There are a number of factors in becoming good. Some people get good by playing loads, some get better by practicing vs the best they can. Some are natural or have come from other games.

I think there is lessons to learn by losing hard. I think it is fair to say that most the players/teams at the top of the game right now have all been raped. I think the difference is, they carried on and improved and did not give up. If you play TVS 20 times in a row I think you will learn something and hopefully see where the weakness in the team is.

Are you speaking for yourself or for your team?

Ofc they have all been raped but i think they learned more from close games.

Ive found a team that is happy to play at a mid/low level, been playing there since 2005. Noone in that team think its worthwhile to get raped but rather play close games.

What div are you in? 1?

btw, I think you get better playing the best. It is up to the players in the team how fast you learn, or if you even want too!

Some people like easy games because they cannot handle it! as long as you have close games with some teams in your div its all good. If you lost BIG vs every team then you are in the wrong div.

Getting raped was the way I learned to play! It help me see my own weakness, and the weaknesses of my team. This made it easier to improve. In even games, or in games where I'm in the better team, I often get bored and couldn't be bothered to make the extra effort needed, hence I do not learn as much from those games. I guess it's quite personal what you prefer.

Everyone seems to forget that some people don't play to get better/the best, but they play to have fun. For them, that means playing clans that are approximately equal in skill. I can understand that it is not possible with the current number of clans that are active to make divisions where all of the teams are competitive to each other unless you make divisions of 3 or 4 clans. However, in all of these discussions, mainly started by the likes of blAze, the emphasis is always put on 'getting better' and 'playing at the highest skill level'. The same can be observed in the map discussions. The assumption he/they put(s) forward is always that people have more pleasure watching games of the highest skill level and that you get better by playing better clans. While that might be true to some degree, who enjoys watching 40 minutes of rape and who gets better by playing a 400 - 15 game? And what if I don't think it's worth it, playing many maps (of 35 minutes each at least with all the usual delay) to get better a little or what if I just reach the end of my learning curve?

It's fine that there are a few pro-gamers that strive for ultimate skill levels and such, but the way this belief/opinion is being put upon others is pretty annoying.

To be fair though the primary function of any competition is well, just that - competition. The origin of official leagues and tournaments is not (even if you wish it to be now) to have fun, but to 'prove' who is the best. Any team that chooses to enter a league tournament has to accept that the tournament will be structured with that in mind.

If people want to just 'have fun' by playing clans that they deem to be approximately equal in skill then the best option (in terms of official tournaments) is probably to create some kind of ladder tournament where you can simply refuse to play other teams.

Looking at div1 it seems fine to me, there are some teams that we can predict will finish near the top of the table, but that's as it should be - the best clans at the top and the worst at the bottom. There are a group of so-called "not div1" clans that can probably win maps off each other if not some against the more established div1 clans.

Somehow Milton turned out pretty good despite playing in lower div than his skill for many years. When did TVS lose big to have their learning experience?

I am not whining about divisions serox... I am not even whining about my clan getting raped. I just commented on your question about why some clans refuse to play versus your clan.

I think it took like a full year before we won one single game against anyone. Our very first game was a 400-0 type of rape against WeW. We pracced a lot with FF and LA and the important learning experience was that if you go and bore that first rl at ra, that was it, pain and suffering for you and your mates for next 20 minutes. So the next time you are there with the first rl you just don't fucking bore it. With even games you don't learn that there really is no room for _any_ mistakes. Even when you do the stupidest mistakes you make a comeback soon and everthing goes on as if nothing happened... On the other hand when we managed to either kill all enemy rls from the start or get the weapons to ourselves by persistent flooding to the wpns it was really rewarding when the game went on and on with even scores. Milton got better because he always played to win, regardles of the div or his teammates. If you don't aim to get better, you won't. I get the for fun point of view, but isn't qw a bit brutal platform for that. New games are more balanced and you can suck as much as you want and still not get owned that bad.

qw is still the best game for clan action, nothing beats playing in the same clan for years no matter how good or bad you get

qw is still the best game for clan action, nothing beats raping hooraytio in the same way for years no matter how good or bad you get

only fun in quake is to rape hagge dm4 1on1 B<<

Käft eta.

Hagge acting like a kid as usual

One of the first QWDM demos I saw was tVS with LAN pings raping some modem clan. Forgive my ignorance of earlier years as I was not very aware of DM scene.

Indeed the learning experience is not the losing, but the challenge that better teams/players pose. Otherwise tVS would have to be losing its edge pretty rapidly. And Chosen should be better than tVS with our 300 lost rounds in the last 3 years.

I think when the game is on, everyone plays to win. But it's another thing to put in hours just so you can become better (or just love to play a lot anyway). Playing loads becomes first, second and third, before anything else.

It's not fair to expect those who can or will only play couple of times a week to be satisfied when those games are big losses. Nobody would be. Do you want them to then quit altogether if they are not willing or able to put in more time?

The community would be rather small if it only consisted of really competetive players aspiring to become the best duellers or clans.

#67

QW will turn into a brutal platform for those who seek fun games if it is a very uneven matchup. Like Fusion versus CCS or Slackers versus Magnum 44. But the thing is that most of the top clans really play to get better and perhaps win a tournament some time soon (unless TVS can keep them all at bay) while most of the div2+ (eql11 divisions) clans seem to play for fun. The argument "play versus us to get better" used to get a game versus a less skilled clan doesnt work if that clan isnt really trying to get better.

In a competition you have to play whoever you are pitted against but in a prac (can be for practice or for fun) you dont have to accept a match you might think will be boring (bad pings, uneven as hell matchup, etc).

The discussion was about #47 "Whats with teams that dont want to play teams they think will beat them???" but it turned into a "how can your clan improve" discussion.

If the clan you are asking for a prac isnt really trying to improve then a rape is totally pointless and a waste of 20-60 minutes minimum. If they play for fun and expect to be raped then there is no motivation for them to play vs your clan. However, if they are trying to improve I can, after reading what mostly serox and blaze said, agree that you might learn something even from a rape. It is not the losing the "for fun" clans fear, it is the frustration, boredom and waste of time that a rape means

One might also question the motive for a clan to ask a less skilled clan for a prac while using the argument: Play vs us to get better.

What does the better clan have to gain from this prac?
It would seem like they are playing for fun since, according to blaze, serox and hagge etc, you only get better from playing vs better clans.
So now, we have one good clan playing for fun vs a less skilled clan that is trying to play for fun but probably wont have much fun while being raped.

Using your logic it doesnt make sense to prac vs worse clans.

Hooraytion: Playing teams that are not as good is a time to practice and make sure you can keep things tight and practice routing.

I dont get much time to play now so any enemy is good enemy to me. I just want to play, improve my aim and my movement and just get to use to trying to think about 7 other players and what they are doing. Also practice timing of items and working together. I dont see the point in playing and raping the same team over n over but I never do anyway! Who does? TVS may win big s some teams in div1 but thats life.

i don't get this whatsoever. tks will take some beatings for sure and thats ok, because as hangtime put it so well, it's a COMPETITION, why are you even bringing up "fun" when you signed up your team for a COMPETITION again ;p

and as far as the refusing pracs goes is not such a big deal up to a point, but you still signed up to compete ;p

Some prac is always better than no prac. But sure, we have turned down pracs because the opponent is just too bad and it would be too boring.

"Playing for fun" is an argument used year after year in qw and EQL especially, I'd say it's nothing wrong at all about playing for fun, we (Fusion) certainly play for fun. We switch lineups often it works perfectly fine for us, that's what I would say is playing for fun, because everyone's given a chance and is having fun playing, although we do take our games seriously while we're playing no matter who's playing, in the end, no one likes to take a loss. The problem with divisions is that too many teams and players apply the term "playing for fun" as their sort of argument to skip promotion to a higher division and while playing the same teams over and over might be a valid argument for them, it's tbh quite egoistical in a way. Quakeworld has perhaps 40 active teams. For a top3 division 1 team that is about 5 teams you can play against. And in the end people ask the question why this game is losing players. The problem I see it mostly starts in division 2 where there's always some teams that complain before the season starts about getting promoted to division 1, stating things such as "getting raped is boring". Well, 5 years ago the difference between the top 3 division 1 teams and the top 3 division 2 teams were at most 100 frags depending on maps. That's not what I would call a "boring" game. However the difference today between TVS and a 5th position team in div2 is most likely 3-400 frags on any map. I can see how that's not fun, but neither TVS or the admins are to be blamed for this stagnation. The players and teams are. If you sign up for a competition you have to follow the rules of the competition. And generally a promotion usually means something good and should get teams and players more motivated but that's not the fact in this game. I'd say if teams and players spent some of those practice games playing a slightly better opponent or a team that is 1 div better they would improve greatly and the difference wouldn't have to be this huge.

#76 and #79 Fair enough, now i understand your point of view. Also we didnt have such different opinions like it seemed from the start.

#77-78. This is not about my team or official games at all. We are in the right division and will probably have both tough and not so tough games.

The fun part was considering pracs and that was also what concerned serox with the "some teams refuse to prac my team, why?" question. I simply made an attempt to explain why. A team should never enter a tournament and then refuse an official game. Thats not what the issue was concerning.

From what it looks like so far only CCS have complained loudly about EQL11 and their placement in div2. That must be an all time low on placement whine.

Now lets start playing some official games!

#82

Well in CCS case I can understand them, looking at their games in the polish league that is running they don't seem to belong in division 2. But I don't have much insight in their team or the players in their team so I'm not sure I'm right on this one.

CCS Vs Magnum 44 - Polska Liga Klanów with sector who is not in our EQL roster:
DM3 - 183:63
DM2 - 354:22
3rd map WO.

I would like to ask the admins put us back to div3. I have no chooise. We can play 1 or 2 days on a week with eatch other and we want to play with equal conditions. Else I have no choice and I'd like to ask you delete CCS from EQL.

This is not whine. I just wanted to give an explication why would we like to play in the 3rd div.

chooise = choice
eatch = each

Sorry for my english

just move CCS to div3 and that's it. what's the harm :|

the harm is that the admins would have to change their decision, and this would make them seem less superior 8)

you cant move CCS to div3, but you let cmf Fix to play in div3...

"Probably wasn't that different from now." (about SD5). I agree! but with the EXCEPTION of TVS SR or LA wasnt anywhere NEAR the "hard-to-beat" status you guys have now. All those 8 clans HT mentioned had a chance of winning with perhaps the exception of ToT and RE but still they could put up a good fight vs anyone of those. And you must be high on crack to define yourself as noobs in that time you were just as good as we (FS) were. Maybe SR and LA were slight favourites though.
But they were loosing alot of maps all the time, in pracs and officials.
Can't really say that about TVS now

But im not either saying that "oh my god it was so much better in those days". I think actually this season looks very interesting. I dont see everyones problem really. It will be alot of close fights in div1 with perhaps the exception of TVS who might rape the lower clans. But that is only 1 damn game out of what? 12 ?

"the harm is that the admins would have to change their decision, and this would make them seem less superior"

The harm is that they won a spot in div2 by getting 2nd ind div4 last season, we judge the teams on the roster they sign up with and prior results. If you sign up with good players that isn't going to play, then you are going to end up in the wrong division.

The divisions are divided not just by skill but also by size, eg. ~13 teams in each division. So those teams we considered the 13 best teams went into div1, then 12 in div2 and the last 13 in div3.

That doesn't mean that there is not a skill gap between the 10th and 11th best team in div2, but we needed to find enough teams to put there. CCS's had with their current roster the best prior results of the bottom teams.

This might not be fair, but if it was to be fair we would have to make 10 divisions with 4 teams in each, and that is not the kind of league we want to run.

I'm just like to say I think it's a bit of a joke that the announcement of a so-called 'stable' ezquake release has to be hidden away in a random news post like this, yet isn't fit for the actual ezquake homepage.

Apparently because it only contains executables they don't want some n00b downloading it and having problems. If that is the case, then why is there a link to the nightly builds on the download page, but not this stable build? It beggars belief.

Well razor, the scores were smaller, but I don't think we ever had a realistic chance of winning sr or la with our lineups those days. Grabbing a map win in dm2 was probably the best we could have hoped for. We won some pracs but in the real games they were always two steps ahead.

HangTime, I don't know why it is not on the ezQuake page, might be because it's such a small update, I dunno.

But the reason why it is in this news item, is that it was something we requested for eql, so players could use the "best route" feature to find the best mutual server.

best route feature owns.

best route never worked for me.

You live in poland, you will always get the worst route

I'd say if it doesnt work, you are doing something wrong. Perhaps time for a user guide.

I live in NL.

I'll change it to "You're polish, you will always get the worst route "

But what master server are you using?

If i recall correctly, some other random guy in NL also had problem with best route. Cant it be the case that a qwfwd over there is reporting the wrong numbers?

There probably just isn't a QWFWD with good routing to servers

Stop ignoring me on irc Zalon!

@Zalon: I'm not saying it shouldn't be in the qw.nu EQL newspost, I'm saying that it should be on ezquake homepage. I asked Johnny_cz about it couple days ago and he said it was because this release contains only executables not full package, so they didn't want newbs downloading it and having problems.

But if that's the case, how can they justify linking to NIGHTLY builds on the official download page, but not STABLE ones?!? Just seems crazy to me. The whole point of a stable release is that it's an official build to be rolled out to all people that want it, not hidden away somewhere. I heard there was a stable version out and went looking for it on ezquake.sf.net, but it wasn't there.

What about that "all official stable releases" link on our download page?

what is ezquake?

Well, just to restart the fire...

Some guys are saying things like "this is a competition. The idea is to filter the best, not having fun"

I don't known if I agree 100% with that, but I can kind of see your point... IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER GAME. If we talk about (insert brand new game here) with millions of players then I can agree with that.

But Quake World is different. It is slowly dying. "Strive to be the best" is fine for the top teams, but if we leave the "for fun" part only for casual matches we will see what we see now, an ever dwindling community. Remember, we are talking about people that play once, twice a week. Believe it or not, they do it for fun. They know they will (probably) never be at the same level as the best out there, but they like the game and would like an even match before going to bed. At least with EQL we can kind of "force" these guys to play eachother, with scheduled matches, etc. And since they know that the other team is on the same level, since they know that next Wednesday at 20:30 there will be a match against that other team they know they can beat if they put some effort, then they will be willing to play. And so does the other team, and we all will be able to have a nice, smooth, "W.O.less" EQL

Face it guys, QW is daying. While I hope it lasts forever, none of us can be sure, so, lets have fun while it is still there.

Without competition, qw would die in a month. If you water down that aspect of the game, you sign its death warrant.

You dont have to water down the competition part.

The issue was pracs and i totally get why some clans deny pracs vs too good clans. Competition games are a whole other story. Play them or get kicked out.

"It is slowly dying" Oh my, do people really still have to make that remark over and over again?

I remember back in 2001, a friend of mine from my home town who was a solid qw player and used to be very active, had stopped playing. I asked him why and he said that "qw was dying", I then asked him when he would guess that it would be dead? His answer was that in 1 year, noone would be playing QW anymore.

Now that is almost 10 years ago and we are still playing, since then I've heard it numerous times again and again (not talking about the .spam QW IS DEAD) - Yet we are still playing.

If I then compare 2001 with today, the scene is actually more active than it was when he made that comment, 2001 was the year NQR was born, it was the year where regular teams moved from playing on a national level to competing in a international league. My friend never played on more than the national level, he never got to be part of the big international qw scene that we now have in Europe.

First Season of NQR had 26 teams, then later levelling between 40 and 50 teams, that's only a bit more than what we have today, also a lot of the teams back then didn't last the first week after signup ended.

What I'm trying to say is that, if QW is dying, It's been dying since it's release, we've survived Q2, Q3, WOW, girlfriends, wives and children and I'm sure there will be people playing for a long time to come, I at-least know I will.

If we are gonna talk about "competition" vs "for fun", yes it is more fun to play vs equal opponents, but if we were to make a league with only even divisions, then as I've already mentioned, we would have to make divisions of 4 teams.

That would seriously be the blow that would kill QW as our scene and teams would stop evolving, and the activity level would go to an all time low. We see it every time there is no competition going on, the scene is dead, when a league starts, the scene goes active again. If people were just playing "for fun", they could always just play official games vs equal teams, that was what we did in the past.

That is why we made the large divisions, to make the most interesting tournament for the teams as possible. There is unfortunately not an equal amount of teams on the same level, but then we must just hope that the teams getting in the higher divisions, is also the teams who have the will to get better and help evolve the scene.

@Johnny_cz: OK, you got me there! But it seems my whine has had the desired effect and the latest stable build is now more visible, so GJ

As for the dying scene, yes it is dying, but over an extended timeframe, just like we as human beings are all dying.

Just an illustration, a while back there were 2 (OMG! TWO!!) mix games happening at the same time on wargamez, and it was commented on like it was some kind of super-surprising event. Likewise I saw a comment when there were 5 clanwars going on at once in europe, as if that was some kind of proof that QW isn't dying out. But the fact is I remember a time when you'd have more than 2 mix games going on at 15:00 CET on a weekday afternoon (Missile/Telenordia/BBB etc), nevermind sunday evening which has always been the peak time for QW.

To use an English phrase, it's 'clutching at straws' somewhat. QW is dying, but because a lot of the players are veterans, they aren't all going to jump ship when the 'next big thing'(TM) comes out. It will be a long, protracted death. Most of us will just gradually play less over time, whether that takes 5 years, 10 years, 20 years or whatever.

Maybe you had mix games at 15:00cet when we were all in school. But now you see em at 00:00-03:00 during the night instead?

But my point was that it's not more dead now than it was 5 years ago, if qw died it died in 99 with the release of Q3. My guess is that is when we lost the most players at one given time, then there was WOW but most came back when they got bored of it.

Looking at season 1 of EQL which ran about 4.5 years ago, there were 54 active clans (that's 54 clans who played at least 5 games, i.e. the season started with more clans). So far in EQL only 28 clans have played any games at all, and even if everyone gets active, there's only 36 clans in total.

So based on the number of clans playing 4on4, QW _is_ 'more dead' than it was 5 years ago.

That was not my point, I know there were more teams and players in 2005/2006, but I'm talking about activity.... EQL1 and EQL2 had the same amount of played matches as EQL9 and EQL10 had. I guess we've just lost the less active players/teams since then.