Sounds good. There will be some raping in the early group matches, but hard to avoid, maybe.

(Edited 2014-02-04, 12:54)

Does this belong on the news section?

Why wouldnt it?
It is like the only thing that is happening right now in qw.

Perhaps comment on the suggestion instead of questioning the news value?

Well, it's not really news, it's a suggestion that you want people to comment on - better fit for the forums.

Ill just leave it here for now.

Kudos to you for the ambition to run a season under these circumstances. Last season was great, the best in quite a long time (in my opinion). Is it really worth starting another one with 9 teams only?

I fear that ppl will forget qw 4on4 even more if there is not a tournament running.

Divisions havent been much larger than 9 teams in recent seasons so I think it could still be worth while with 8 games per clan + playoffs.

I think your engagement for all is very good, then about your idea sounds good too.

The thing is that we gonna se some serious raping in group stage for sure but, since the lack of interest in EQL and qw overall i think what you suggest is failry good.

Sure top vs bottom will be one sided but it has been that way since the dawn of qw.
Back in the smackdown days there were always stars vs noobs in the groups for example.

Go Hooraytio!

Btw: There are several teams with 9-11 players. If it's possible for them to field a team 1 and team 2, like SD have done, we might have enough for two divs.

Csn have 7-8 active players because there is no downside to list some oldies and less active ones just in case. It is not likely that the 3-4 least active players in csn would join another clan and the ones who are active want to play together. Dunno about imm and ll tho.

Perhaps it's time for another go at the draft 4on4. Last time there was like 8 4on4s going on at the same time the first day of the draft. A lot of people struggle to join EQL because their entire team isn't active, so they choose not to join at all. Others don't have a team and can't find one to join.

I welcome a round of Salvation directly after EQL 18. When Salvation 1 ran alongside EQL it almost killed the EQL games because of the fixed scheduele at Sundays.

EQL 18 should be over around April 27th or so. Hopefully earlier. Havent decided on the exact time frame yet.

Yeah of course I meant after the EQL. I don't like them overlapping :-)

I missed out on last Salvation. Bring it on! (After EQL of course.)

I would play in Salvation again, it was fun the last two times I played.

Sounds very good Hooraytio. Thanks for putting the effort and time necessary to make things like this happen. I'm mostly inactive, but always when there is an EQL coming on, I get to play again.

Regarding high vs low games, it always happened, even between teams on the same division. I think the key on those situations is not giving up the match too early. Usually when I play versus strong opponents that I know that I will be raped, I set targets for the match, on which if I accomplish, then I have the "moral victory". This keeps me to enter in the "whatever" mood and start to die and give weapons for free.

Sounds like a good attitude ovr!

The reason for not using the 1vs8 2vs7 etc. approach is because I want to avoid as many rape games as possible during playoffs. Some of those are unavoidable during the group phase but the playoff system is designed to produce as many even games as possible.

Hooraytio for president!

(I like the suggestion)

I would participate for draft... and also heard the same from few other guys. Maybe it is not a bad idea because EQL seems to be quite small this time... It's just fun cause the games are so equal etc...

Yea, another draft would be better than this EQL. Agree with diki.

We now have 12 clans in EQL 18, why would a draft be better than playing 11 clan games + playoffs bps?

I think the draft admins should assemble during EQL 18 and prepare for a draft season to begin as soon as EQL is over. That way we can prolong the 4on4 season to just before the summer break.

Like I said before, Salvation nearly ruined EQLs chances of having the games completed, because of taking away the Sunday evenings from regular clan games, the last time they ran simultaneously.

Because there's not much competition, which gives the top teams less motivation to play. What are we fighting for? Just as bottom teams doesn't wanna get raped, top teams don't wanna rape bottom teams. Atleast not us.

Advantage of a draft is that it'd render more interesting games -> more fun to play -> more fun to watch -> more to fight for.

There is plenty of competition for the clans in the middle...
Besides, noone is forcing you to play if you find it boring.

Good for them!
Rather a rider of gloomy paragraphs than a problem solver, are we. Sounds like the words of the refusing captain of the Titanic

Aren't you both arguing for the same thing? Everyone understands you can't just cancel EQL. Play the EQL through, and then Salvation can start up again!

#27 dunno, seems like you dont want qw 4on4 anyway. stop being so negative.
The lack of div0 teams doesnt mean the other clans cant have fun you know.
12 clans signing up is hardly like the Titanic, more like a slowly melting iceberg.
We all know qw is shrinking, did you think you just figured that out bps?

You should've made 2 divs with teams playing one another TWICE. The present solutions is just ridiculous. It's obvious why. Can't you still change it and save the season?

Yeah, which of the middle teams belong in div1 and div2?
Leave paras and ll to rape in div2?

Sorry, that just isnt a viable solution.
The only one who is really complaining is bps and a few others who dont even play in EQL. Do you see anyone from the mid/low clans complaining kloze?

I guess ppl dont really give a fuck anymore about the Titanic as they used to :/
More apathy, less fuss. Just the slow, accepted demise.
But perhaps more clans would've joined if hey had known that they wouldn't have to play teams so different in skills to them? Did you do a sort of EQL research amongs ppl on IRC or smth?

#29 tell me more about that I don't wanna play 4on4?
Am I being negative? I'm suggesting another option for the future; another draft. That would be exciting! Instead of this insipid idea of clan games, which I love, but just cannot proceed unless more teams signup.

#32 The premise for the season was that the number of divisions would depend on the number of clans. The original idea was ofc to make a similar season as last one thus not having the clans play vs very different opponents skill wise. How could anyone think they would have to play vs too hard/easy opponents from that information?

From original EQL 18 news post: "There will hopefully be enough clans for 2-3 divisions and the season will be about as long as last one."

But in Klozes mind this means: "You will have to play vs teams so different in skills from yours"

How do you make that assumption?

Also, three of the five top clans from last season didnt sign up even though last seasons div1 was deemed the best one in a long time. Furthermore, 3 lower skilled clans signed up AFTER it was clear that it would be only 1 division this season. The "research" is ofc to post info about the season and see what players comment about it. Seems you are misinformed about pretty much everything.

#33 Well you said "another draft would be better than this EQL".
12 clans is pretty good for one division. There has been much smaller divisions in the past. The thing that differs now is that we only have one division. I think we want the same in the end, perhaps been talking past eachother a little.

And dont get me wrong, I would like to see another season of Salvation, just not at the same time we are trying to get another EQL season played.

(Edited 2014-02-11, 11:08)

Ive also changed the playoffs since the original idea became too complicated with 12 clans.
See eql page.

Imagine if the qw scene didnt go TB3 only 10 years ago. Good riddance.

Let the weaker teams play a kenya vs the better teams. Give a point for map victory. Thats how...and WHY... it worked in the old days when weaker teams played the elite. Then the elite teams started to refuse this and went TB3 only...claiming: "we are the best teams, we know what is best for QW". Well, have fun with the 9 teams

You get 1p for winning a map and there are 12 clans.
Your theory doesnt explain whay so many top players quit either.
In fact, there are alot more mid/low skilled playes than top playes this season.

Also, how do you define a "weaker" and a "stronger" team with regards to wich team is alloed to play "kenya" etc etc etc.

Let everyone play it if they like? What you got to loose? The scene is pretty much dead anyway? You let me play my Kenya and you get one more clan? How is that for a nice deal?

We have to remember that a lot of ppl played QW over other FPS games and stuck with it for a long time. I dont think that was because of the maps But i think you lost more players than gained players because of the few map choices if u wanted to compete.

Have said it before, I will say it again, and i know many agree with this:

You want more ppl to play then start with FFA and cycle many maps. Quit this 4v4 TB3 thing. Start organize a FFA league instead. Put your effort on that. Grinding away on 4v4 TB3 is not getting you anywhere.

But hey, I dunno if you all want to decline, sooner or later.

- Ride My Rocket

This has also been said a thousand times: Why dont you start up a tournament then, more maps 4v4 or ffa? Its super easy. (disregarding the 2½ tournaments you tried to start but then abandoned)

EQL has turned out to be a hardcore TB3 4v4 tournament. Imo, one tournament has to be that way too since thats what many players like as well, regardless of what you think players like.

A N Y O N E who is a little committed can start and run a tournament with whatever rules they want and Im not gonna stop them. Look at Salvation, it worked, Free Thursday Kenya and that Tuesday Kenya as well. Countless of duel tournaments. Who is stopping you if you want to see some 4on4 with anymaps or an ffa?

Hey sorry for giving you a hot tip on getting more players. IMO something have to be wrong with "management" and "leadership" when you got one of the greatest games as a base and its declining. I understand the concepts of "A4 life", time issues, economics etc. But if you want qw to grow again then you do FFA. If you dont want it to grow, then just do what you do.

Yeah, you dont get what Im saying.
I want to play qw 4on4 so I run a qw 4on4 league.

Noone is stopping you or anyone else to run a league in any mode and with your own desired rules.

What else dont you understand? Do you seriously believe that it has to be run by EQL to be a success? Do you also believe that noone really wants to play 4on4 on TB3?

This is what I have been telling everyone who constantly complains about maps, new players, ffa, yadayada yada, like yourself and johnny_cz for example. I am still to witness anyone of you actually going forward with it.

Besides, FFA is done every day and we constantly point new players into the direction of the FFA server. Ask Buurvrouw if she sees alot of new players, she prolly knows most about the FFA scene right now.

I didn't like CMF beating us 450-0 on DM2, but the rest of the games have been fun, even though we've lost them all by a large margin. And I don't think it's fair game to criticize Hooraytio, the only guy bothering to set up a tournament nowadays. If you don't like it, you don't have to play. If you prefer a different tournament, why not start one? Put your money where your mouth is, as they say.

How comes that the less active players Quake has the more experts come up knowing how to change that?

Oh leopold, want me to direct you to some really golden whine threads on the nqr and eql sites about the exact same subject?

no, I want to keep my illusions

Well the EQL is good as it is and thanks to Hooraytio about all the work. I would say that adding more maps just scares people off. At least I don't have any time to learn new maps, hardly play some rounds of dm3 etc.

Running too leagues same time could be a risk for EQL as you said, but also there would be more people joining. If you postpone draft too much, we will have problems with summer. If draft is running like two months.

I don't know what is the schedule for EQL, but my idea was that now it would be a good time to start organize the draft. One week for web site, 2-3 weeks for signup and then one week for creating the teams. That means it could start earliest in the end of March. And if needed those can run simultaneously week or two if needed, that can't kill the playoffs in EQL.

So I hope we have some brave ppl who could arrange that draft league and bring some new activity into scene so it won't die completely. Any volunteers?

And when we see how many ppl are joining, which skill level... we could decide if we need two drafts like last time (if I remember correctly).

Draft would be nice

Yeah, good points there Diki

I can provide stream and commentary and so on, as well as play myself. However I'd need help with the organizing of the shizzle :-)