Age :39
Group: Member
Location: Czech Republic
Did spend a lot of time playing QW and developing ezQuake back in the day.
Commentary  /  17 May 2007, 11:32
Although QW is alive, it's empty
As summer comes, QW scene is going into it's traditional hybernation and some opinions about how the scene works are coming up, like here or here. I'd like to add my point of view on the topic how much and why QW is alive.
When watching ezQuake project stats I'm pretty much scared about one thing. We get more like 150 downlads EACH DAY. You immediately have to ask two questions yourself:
1) Where do these people come from?
2) What do they do after they find us?
I think I pretty much have the answer for the first question: these days ezQuake is evalued as 22nd most active project on SourceForge.net, in the Games category we are in the top 10 for very long time. As the site hosts around 150 000 projects, it attracts lot of people who would like to try out something new, so it's not hard to guess that we get lots of random people who would "just like to try it".

What scares me are the possible answers to the second question. I think in the latest versions the client is pretty easily configurable, it's also easy to access servers as we provide a list from QuakeServers.net from now on. So these people probably jump on a server, play some games, etc. But right after they do this or maybe even before they do it, they must be interested what kind of game this QuakeWorld is, how big it is, what does it offer besides of the attractive gameplay?
How many sites have QW-related content?
Are those sites maintained well?
How old are they?
How can I entertain myself with something QW-related if I don't want to play online righ now?

I'm sure I can stop here, anyone can come up with more similar question. Now I give you some answers that I'm not happy I have to say:
Goldrush was exactly one of the sites that could entertain you. It's gone. It's losing 150 users par day. It's gone for like 20 days, we have lost 3000 users so far. Ok, I'm exaggarating a bit. But the page is empty. For what reason?
New quakeworld.nu site had a potential. But after you make some clicks here and there, you discover unimplemented features, your user profile is almost useless. You can add your HW specs, but please, this was eleet in year 2000, I don't think anyone cares how much GHz are there in your machine nowadays. Logo competition didn't result in a new logo. Design is broken on some places. Writing a blog entry is allowed only for some users. Why? Don't you know that blogging attracts lots of attention? And those who can write blog posts like me are frustrated because the submit form is not working well. Why does the site have 3 column design? The right column only contains a Poll and besides that, it's empty. It took more then 5 weeks to restore KTX sub-site. This and the fact QW.nu is just looking rich but down there is empty gives you another place where we are losing hundreds or thousands of users each week. For what real reason?

Besmella-Quake does only offer tournaments coverage nowadays, except of that, it's empty. Losing potential users.
If you click a link to EQL match on QW.nu site, what do you see? Like here, you only see some numbers, name of the teams, comments of some players how pissed they were when playing. No real commentary, what were the expectations, how the game went, is it interesting to watch? Where are demos? The only exception are CMF matches where Fifi has ability to drag your attention in his comments and while reading them, you can have your "two minutes of pleasure from QW while not actually playing it". Also some other clans and players write reports, I'd like to thank them all here.

Before they kicked Q3 out of CPL with some poor commercial excuses, one of the most important arguments why they supported Q3 was it's great GTV. Why QTV developer implements new features like UDP routing and doesn't finally fix broadcasting? Some people came up to him with suggestion we need to replace Qizmo! I must ask: Why? Why not finish and start using broadcasting first and get rid of unstable and uncomfortable observer mode? New people do not need Qizmo routing, maybe ParadokS needs it to get his 13 ms everywhere, but he knows how to use Qizmo. Those hundreds of new potential players want to be able to observe interesting matches easily.

Why are we losing so many opportunities, why are we losing so many users each day? NQR finals broadcast was not perfect but it was nice. It will attract hundreds or thousands of people. Will they stay or will they leave? After they search for QW content, what will they see?

I think QW scene is now only dragged to playing, brains are completely off. Why can't Goldrush be running in another beta stage? Even that would be fun. Why they don't fix the most irritating things on QW.nu site? Why league admins do almost nothing to make their site offer something more then just some score numbers and statistics?
Goldrush doesn't have to be perfect yet, QW.nu site doesn't have to offer all the features right now, there doesn't have to be three pages long reports under each div5 EQL match. But why don't you plug your brain and do at least the most evidently missing things to make some of those potential users stay with the scene? Do not hope that some magic person will contact you and do all the jobs you cannot do because you don't have time. You have to do those jobs. If you cannot do them all, do at least the most important things.

Some other thoughts: Why is the scene afraid of advertisements like a puritan christian is scared of a rock music?
Why do div1 players write previews for div1 games? Div1 player will never write such a "hot" senteces like "Razor has great Quad + boomstick skills, interceptor is great at rushing Red Armor area". Because those sentences are not true and more like 50% players can disagree with it, it makes the game look so much more attractive. Div1 player would never write these because he doesn't want to make a "fool" of himself but also such "skills" look as normal to him, not like something that should be expressed in a preview article.
Do you realize that your in/activity causes a chain effect? In ezQuake we got a great response from all the people around when we gave out Beta version for for testing. I didn't expect that there are so many people out there who are interested in helping us.

QW will always be alive, people will always play it. Question is, will it offer something more?
Use your brain, imagine you are a new potential player and watch things in QW from his eyes. It's not about "I don't have time", that's not an excuse. You always have time to do at least something small.
Comments
2007-05-17, 12:10
holy cow great topic to think about
2007-05-17, 12:16
really faithful article!
2007-05-17, 17:43
JohnNy_cz, great blog entry!

Let me try to help you with some of your answers (ps not all of them are 100%)

Lets start with QW.nu!
We have not been able to get the site better due to our www admin that has been sick and lots of other stuff but we got it up, and some can write blog/news and that is fine, but we sure want more and more and more!
I have started to look at other directions but most ppl dont simply have time but I have faith in the future of QW.nu since we are now collaboration (or we will) with another network. (more to come there

As for qizmo and GTV (QTV EZTV) its in the progress rightnow with qqshka and renzo beeing the front figures but the same thing there, QQ simply dosnt have the tie to do it right now due to new job etc. so he can only help during the weekends when he got alittle time (and vvd/disconnect arent as fast as QQ is, dunno whats up with that)
But we (we? well not me, but they) have been working on it for some time now and its VERY VERY close from what I have heard.

I write some previews and I dont play in a clan and I think I write about all sort of teams regardless if they are div1 or div5, but Im not that into the lower divisions (4-5) so I dont have a in-sight of the current status there, would be better if someone would helped me with that who was active, yes Im calling out for some help here.

Yes you are an ezQuake admin and you have done a great job, but here I can start hunting you aswell for not doing it 100% perfect.
There are tons of stuff that you can do so we dont loose those 100(out of 150) ppl/day. Like making the maps GPL-free!
dunno if its a ezQuake thingy but its more in your department than mine (mine=qw.nu/tourneys)(yours=clients and stuff

I agree with you, we can do awhole lot better but its very hard when we dont got enough 100% committed ppl as we once had.

Its sad, but thats just the way it is, if we find some1 that can maybe help us, Ill take that but its more likely that he will drop that and go on after 1-2 weeks..

Well enough said here. gotta go now, might comment some more later on

Edited by sassa on 17 May 07 @ 19:53CET
2007-05-17, 17:52
Nicely put Johnny, this is the kind of stuff i enjoy reading.

The development of qw.nu is being idle due to the developer being busy with irl business i think. Hopefully we will see changes during the summer though, so that the site can be flourishing in time for ~september again when the Quaking takes off again. I really agree that the state of qw.nu isn't what a main community site should look like.

When it comes to the EQL coverage and stuff, we always try to get volunteers to do previews of the divisions for us and they are of course welcome to do previews of single games too. I think the head admins feel that we already spend (or have spent) enough time on the tournament/site. Writing previews, interviews and whatnot when we already spend most of the time discussing rule violations, approving games/players e.t.c. isn't that appealing. It doesn't help that we are at the end of the (full) season now with summer coming - all clans are pretty much idle.

On the QTV/Qizmo thingie i don't know what to say. It seems a bit awkward to me too, to be honest. Getting QTV fully working so that it fills its spectating purpose would make the most sense. When we have a working QTV it could be possible to implement routing features and whatnot. Extra features in QTV is nice as the Qizmo source kind of doesn't exist anymore.

The advertisement part i also agree on if i got your point right. In order to begin playing, people need to know that the game still is being played. I continously write on ESReality about the big games in QW and i'd like QW to mimic some of the other communities out there. Big banners with player pictures on them before the most important games e.t.c. Something that creates stars and favourites that you know what they actually look like. New stuff.

Anyway, i think the main problem in the community is that it's 5% (or maybe even 0.5%) of the players that does 95% of the job. The forum is nice and everyone are helpful, but i think the community could come alive even more if more people volunteered when it comes to writing news and previews e.t.c. You don't even have to be particularly good at english, just have someone proof reading your stuff and you can make your voice heard.

Edited by Ake Vader on 17 May 07 @ 18:56CET
2007-05-17, 17:59
Quote:

But we (we? well not me, but they) have been working on it for some time now and its VERY VERY close from what I have heard.

Close beeing stable and usable so that it won't 1) crash the mvdsv 2) crash the client 3) disconnect from the server. No, not even close to be finished but usable, yes.
2007-05-17, 18:03
I forgot one thing that i always like to stress: we need FEWER tournaments in Quakeworld. Not fewer as in only EQL or NQR, but fewer as in fewer seasons per year. This way people will probably have more energy to spend on one or two quality tournaments - as competitors, admins and writers - instead of 5-6 half-assed ones. The tournaments would also regain some of their status when clans can't win EQL four times a year.

Quality > Quantity.
2007-05-17, 18:52
Thanks for your feedback.
Sassa: Feel free to "hunt" me in any ezQuake topic
GPL maps seem to be bigger issue then expected, also there is lots of content in the game that needs to be put GPLed first so you can download Quake for free. Maybe you have heard that iD wasn't happy about the idea of free Quake pack. But yes, it's an important thing, I myself am going to add a feature that should help making Quake free for the 1.9 release hopefully.

Ake Vader: Advertisements more like banners and ads on sites which bring money to the owners of the site.
Fully agree with your last point (fewer tournaments).

As for QTV, I don't have the answer. I myself have tried first MVD TCP transfer in September 2005. I know it's a complicated project, but if it takes 20 months then there's something wrong.

Looking forward for the new things to come. Keep up your work, it motivates me to do mine work in ezQuake (chaining effect).
2007-05-17, 18:58
Oh, i misunderstood you on the advertisement part then. I guess the reason we don't use it over on the EQL site is that i haven't looked into what FZ (our host) would think about the whole thing. If we could generate some money from the traffic we get, that money could be spent on prizes or something else so it's an interesting thought.
2007-05-17, 18:59
Quote:

I know it's a complicated project, but if it takes 20 months then there's something wrong.

Perhaps that's why qqshka wanted to make the project a bit different and do it himself. With his dedication and my unending bothering skills, I think we can have the EZTV (not QTV!) working by the end of the summer, even if qqshka has so limited time.
2007-05-17, 19:06
Yea qqshka is my big hope in this too. I'll put in my bothering skills too, even though I wanted to keep using them on "qqshka I want race mode in KTX"
2007-05-18, 11:19
very very nice read johnny. indeed we need to use our brain.

im all for advertising and donations on qw sites. Could at least help pay the bills of the hosting and who knowns, making something different.

The community -all- needs to get more involved, i mean simple things as commenting, advertise clan games with a bit info on irc, etc, - to take advantage of the chaining effect. maybe a "get involved" campaign after summer all over qw sites. (irc's .qw is a under-rated resource imo, 95% of the times its used its to get a game)
Adding to that, i think i would be a good idea to distinguish the individuals (or teams) that actually DO something, to say "thanks!"; with a simbolic prize, say, qw man of the month?

A thing that bothers me in the community is the way things are done. every project seems a big secret (oho, this is private stuff, cant tell anyone), i mean, who is the "developer of qw.nu"? why just don't say his nick? and, why not talk openly about desired projects and keep the community informed about the developments, problems, etc.? in order to the community get involved, we need to LET THEM get involved.

Soon there will be an eyecandy site entirely done by Xantom - we needed this resource YEARS ago. Xantom actually is doing a very nice job on his pages :cheers:. About Goldrush - its closed for vacation; he decided it will be back on September (hybernation). I agree on J when he says it would be fun even during the summer though.

Johnny u "complain" about the matchreport pages on NQR/EQL sites. I understand it, i really wanted to see more info about the match. IMHO Its the player's responsability to report such things. attention: most of we ARE players. there's a special and "important" place for reports - next to each maps screenshots. The guy who submits the screenshots most of the times doesnt have patience/time to write a report about each map. and that reserved space is spoiled. My suggestion is: any1 willing to write a match report about a specific match should be allowed to. and that report appears next to screenshots. its very simple to make... (because any1 could write it, it must be approved by admin ofc). that way we could have even multiple good reads about the match, on proper places, instead of being randomly across the comments (Sometimes there's plenty of comments, some not-so-pleasant-2-read).

thanks for reading
2007-05-18, 12:08
I added google ads and info how to donate via paypal at the Shub-Hub now. Let's see if there is any income...

I can't wait for Goldrush "1.0" and ezTV!
2007-05-18, 20:20
good move there Spirit
i also suggest to everyone removing the ad-filters for the Shub-Hub site (if you're using Firefox or Opera) otherwise your hits won't get registered.. it's for a good cause!

i find this discussion pretty inspiring
<3 Johnny et all
2007-05-19, 12:31
Åke Vader: fz already has ads ye? so why would it be a problem if there were any on the eql-site? :/
2007-05-19, 20:04
Well as we are sponsored by them and get the space for free they might not be keen on having ads on there for "personal use" (although it would be for the community of course). However, i checked with Shock/John the other day and he didn't mind it. He thought it might be hard to get a google ads account for qw.fragzone.se though, as they already have one such account for *.fz.se. I haven't tried yet though so we will see when i do (if i do).

As we don't need any money for a host, commercial revenue would probably be spent on prizes. Prizes, however, are most likely possible to get from other sponsors anyway IF_SOMEONE_TRIES_TO_DO_IT. I will try to put a bit of effort into such things for the future seasons as i don't think anyone have ever tried to be honest.

Just look at the GameTV thing, once people actually tried, something really happened.

Edited by Ake Vader on 19 May 07 @ 21:04CET
2007-05-21, 09:25
How about some ad network of qw sites that all use the same google ads. That way the threshold for payment would be reached much faster.
2007-05-21, 11:55
Yep, but you would also get more opinions/wishes on what to do with the money. :}
2007-05-21, 14:31
Indeed.
Well, there are so called channels to monitor the revenue for different sites, but you would need a fully trustable admin.

One thing is important though: One can promote Adsense to other people to make them sign up via a referral code. Once the newly signed up user makes 100$ (if in 3 months) the promoter gets 100$ too. That's 50$ for each.
2007-05-21, 14:41
Oh, I just checked and it is actually $250 for the promoter if the refered person makes $100 in sex month. Holy...! That is easy.
I added such referer/signup link at the Shub-Hub now. If anyone is about to signup to Adsense please use it and we will have $125 each if it works out well. Make sure to contact me beforehand though so we can make sure that everything will be fine!
2007-05-21, 21:08
sound great spirit, we shoould ad it on eql and qw.nu then!

prizes for eql and costum-tourneys
2007-05-22, 03:48
ps. just wrote news about ezTV! will try it tonight
2007-05-22, 09:31
I would like to read comments about my comment regarding "qw man of the month" please
And about my suggestion on league match reports
2011-05-25, 14:21
Could the bots be downloading stuff? :X
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