I've seen quite a many people being not so fond of the current situation with tournaments and maps we use in them. I think it's about time after 10 years to start thinking about variety of QW by adding some new maps to the mappools in tournaments in every gamemode.

This would level the playfield between old good players and beginners and add variety to somewhat boring TB3 "only" maplist. What we need here is input from league admins that are willing to add more maps and of course the more important, players thoughts.

What maps should be tossed out and why? What maps should be added and why? Also there should be a group of people (or everyone actually) who will try the proposed new maps and tell their opinions about them or what should be improved if we have contacts to any mapmakers.

And all the gamemodes will do, 1on1 2on2 or 4on4.

Its very hard to get new maps into QW as we have seen during the years!

current running
4on4 NQR trying to improve the maplist but got so much whine so it let the players decide the maplist instead
4on4 EQL lets teams vote for maps
2on2 NNQL decides map
1on1 Duelmania/ownage decides maps

old
4on4 AdMortem/NQR-ladder that let you choose a map and made the game official, was very good at start but it never ended and never got fully explored, might have been when admortem got shutdown by akke
2on2 NQR-ladder wasnt that good
4on4 qw4ever wasnt online when link ran it so I dont know how it went

link had some 1on1 kenya tourney aswell didnt he?


As admin:
I let teams choose what they want to play in EQL, in nnql I jumped in at the last day so I didnt decide anything according to maplist

As player:
Im open for more maps but they should be in their own sort of league.
One thing about QW is that ppl dont want to help, of course there are those souls that helps and helps but after acouple of years of helping they get tired. We should add more maps but in a good way.
That way should be with tourneys with only those new maps, let them run 4-6 seasons and after that they will be accepted, yes its a long journey but you cant change it over night.
Lets just take a look at ZTN and Aerowalk that has been around for ages but is still called kurwa maps but ppl have accepted it now!
its not the correct time to put skull in as a normal map in the list right now, it needs more recognition.

Imo the best thing we can do is to create tourneys, give beginners their tourneys they want, there you can add new maps for instance.
We got the phptourney that we can use so it wont be that hard to get it started but its still lacks admins

I can be some sort of help but I cant do much since im already doing everything at qw.nu and helping out with eql/nnql

We need ppl to step out of the irc and the forums and actually do something useful

I have seen apollyon paradoks and many more just loosing their interest in helping because no1 else steps up and helps.. we need you souls that want to help to bring ppl back to our wonderful game.

1, get admins for beginner and "pro" 1on1 tourneys with new maps
2, when you got lots of more players in QW scene, then its time to try to give it a try at the 4on4 scene!

do any1 agree/disagree with me?

Christopher Cross - Ride like the wind <3

Imo there should be a tournament with three of the "old" maps and introduce two new maps to the map pool. Sure the old maps would probably dominate but that way the tournament at least gets some activity and the new maps will be somewhat played. Or a 1map kenya only tournamed pretty much like the nokenya tournament except with kenya! Kicking the "old" maps out and replacing with kenya is way too harsh and it would seriously impact the activity of the tournament.

still hafog, it would be a good start!
I can think that you might get 32 players first season
second season you will have ~50
and so on!!

you cant go out there and think you will have 256 like ownage/duelmania directly with strange maps... just trash TB5 and get new maps if you really believe in it

Well but i think that people who would refuse to join the all kenya tournament would join if they can play three of the old maps. So even if the old maps would dominate more people will play the new maps. I dont think it will help if you have a 32 player tournament full of "no names". The best thing for a new map is to get played by as many players as possible doesnt matter if the map is of ther preference or not. And seriously it would be a pain in the ass to learn 5 maps at once.

Some people would surely do some sneaky tactics and pick kenya against some uber div-10 players that have somehow joined the tournament! It would be very temptating to spank someone really good on kenya If the uber div-10 player had some qw spirit left in himself and the map would be good imo there is a chance that he would throw a few prac rounds outside of the tournament. Just a scenario


Just my 2 cents.

Generally speaking - new maps in FFA - sure, why not. FFA is fun because everyone kills each other and you're always on your own, so even if you don't know the map you can still have fun and you can't ruin someone's else fun.
But 1on1s, 2on2s and 4on4s are fun only when you know the map perfectly and can play smart/teamplay. I play when I got time and I play for fun. I currently got neither possibility nor desire to become div0 by playing 16h/day so as you probably can imagine it's exactly the same when it comes to learning new maps to the level good enough for having fun from them in anything besides pure FFA. I think there is more people like me. We just like the status quo, 3 maps in 4on4s, 5 maps in 2on2s, same in duels and a dozen or so in FFA.

I can't see the point of forcing people to play the maps they don't want to play or just don't have time/will to learn. You want to make people 'happy' by force? If I was _forced to choose between_ having fun from tb3 in unofficial clanwars/mixes and lets say NQR with only kenya maps I would definitely choose the first option. Of course if I had time for both I would consider taking part in such NQR but I still might choose just more regular clanwars etc.

So like you "I'm open for more maps but they should be in their own sort of league" and I would add here that these new league(s) mustn't be provided at the cost of regular league(s), otherwise many players would just play less, less, and someday the scene would just be 'a bit' smaller.

There is still danger here, tho. If with every season more players joined those kenya-map-leagues then in several season their numbers and influence could become so big that they would probably like to vote down opponents and make one-big-league with their beloved-keya-maps included. IMO that mustn't ever happen if you care about scene numbers and quality. The only proper way here is to seperate these two ways of playing QW as long as possible until lets say 80%:20%.

I also think we've got too many regular leagues these days. NQR10, EQL5, NNQL, 0wnage - who has time for all of this and also for a prac from time to time? Also finding free wg.dk server on decent day/hour is impossible now, I can't think what it's gonna be like when EQL5 starts. And remember that big amount of teams/clans/players can play international battles only at wg.dk :/. I just don't see room here for 1on1, 2on2 and 4on4 kenya tournaments right now. Let 0wnage and NNQL end first and probably best would be just to transform NQR or EQL to kenya league rather then adding new one. Also if you leave NQR/EQL as it is and add new 4on4 league with kenya maps people will have to drop from one of these cause who got time for three 4on4 leagues at once? :/

BTW. I've never heard that aero/ztndm3 are kurwa maps, they were always kenya maps. The only kurwa map was dm2 .

Didn't they run separate tournaments for Aerowalk (Apokalypze or someone?) prior to it's acceptance in the official TB5 mappool? I think that might have had a big impact and that ZTN was thrown in as the best fifth alternative. I might be wrong though.

Renzo good points about who likes to play new maps. I agree with everything. Sassas wet dream of attracting noobs is perhaps only possible through a kenya tournament. It should atleast level the playing field if some wannabe noob joins.

Links all kenya tournament was great.

And plast its not that hard to get decent on a map. It takes perhaps 3-5 games and then you know everything and should have a good clue on how to play it.

Imo its sometimes admins job to make the hard choices and not let the public decide.

imo its not the admins choices to change the maplist!

the ppl that want to play the other maps should take charge and get some other tourneys going with diff. maplist

its that simple.. get into it instead and do something

dont talk the talk when u cant walk the walk

yeah i guess.

Nice way to learn the map good would be one-map league . The problem is to pick the proper map .

error:
After 5 games I may know where the items are but it's still half year of playing on that map several times per week to really learn it. By 'learn' I mean the situation when you do not have to think even for 0.1 sec where any tele/corridor leads, when you instantly and under pressure can tell the shortest way from any point to any other point, when you know where spawns, rox, cells, etc. are, when you know where and how to shoot in certain situations and when you can predict your opponent moves. It comes with time and games. 5 games... IMHO even 500 games is still not enough for all of this. And next comes the tactics... .

The thing is that with new maps the skill level would probably decrease somewhat on those maps in the beginning, for everyone. Some got the time to spend on practice, others don't and will probably not be as good on those maps as they were on the old maps. That's why most people don't want to change maps in the first case. (However, i think your half a year and 500 games statements were a bit over the top)

I think that new maps would benefit QW scene a bit.. Saw the dm2 map with gamer and seese and must say it was so bg.. while aerowalk with a total diff map setup was a thriller.. Now aerowalk is included but my point is that those kind of maps are way more preferable than maps made 11 years ago when no one reached speeds over 320.. But as I am a "no one" (nooneie) my vote wont apply.. But I still have a point..

i'm not for removing dm2

i'm for enlarging the map pool (with skull, rf2 or slip)

or at least replacing ztndm3 with ztdm3q (mega on the corridor and two YAs will make games more balanced and QW is kinda lacking balanced maps)

Where is Link when we need him?

I like the idea of a Custom Map League very well. And Links QW4ever was unfortunatly on the wrong time, with the wrong Mappool. But I really believe that if you make a Custom Map League more Noobs will join it if you tell them, that this maps really werent played often, so everyone begins from zero (not really but thats good to tell them).

And dont forget warfare it was one of THE maps back in 1998.

In 4v4 I really would like to see enraged because I think its the map of the future. (Any clan want to play some pracs with it ?)

What do you think ?

I looked over the maps installed on speciell and imo schloss stands out. It has a unique and interesting design.

i like schloss/rwild, schloss being a nice dm2 replacement with long sweeping corridors and 2 megas

im all for uber kenya maps being played, even in tournaments. Also I think that its obvious that players have the option of choice, if they dont want to play anything other than tb3 or tb5, then dont enter tournaments with maps like head-shot, skull, rwild and pkeg1 in them........simple!

I used to like the good ol' days when you played on loads of different maps all the time and it gave variety. Aswell as that it also showed you who REALLY was a good player. I always find it interesting to see when we (my qw gamebuddies ) play on strange uberkenya maps that the top players among us fall apart because they dont know the maps, and then aim and movement ability shines through. Stick a tb3-only player on pkeg1 and watch them then.

So I think that it would be good fun, because anything can happen in games - more interesting - and you will see alot of skills rather than just someone who knows the map inside-out and therefore can prediction-rl their way to victory. Also I cant see it being detrimental to the community because if people are strictly tb3/5 players then they can stay away and stick to eql, nqr and ownage etc etc, no problems.

And who cares whether we get 100 nonames playing uberkenya maps all the time, at least they'll be having fun and improving, and one day they can step onto a 1on1 server and show and tb5 player a trick or two DD

im out

So true!

But still we need the ppl running the tourney.

it just cant be something that you say one day and regret the next, if you really wanna take this task up then you need to fulfill it.

well i have neither the time nor resources to set up such tournaments but if someone else magaed one or two then i'd definately participate for sure!

Yeah me too !

Edit: The thing is: Why do we need 2 4on4 Leagues, with nearly the same Mappool. Why not make NQR or EQL a Custom Map League ?

Agreed, make it not tb3+2 instead give a large pool to choice between or something, like play two maps then toss two maps :> (if the game is 1-1 after two games)

as always, you can setup a tourney just for that right now and teams can choose of joining eql or your tourney!

EQL allows teams to vote for maps.. its all about you, the players!

Most idiotic map i ever played.
Tried ztndm3q yesterday. Vs a little less skilled player. Up to 70 frags only cos mega was near control point of the map. So i don't need to go away for grab it. Original map is way far better.

has any of u that suggests slip for a map replacement even considered the item placement of this map? u can move from ra to mega to ya within 5seconds. is that really a map that would work well for tournaments? sorry, i do not agree with this map at all. skull and rf2 is good, even rwild is ok (a bit too big though).

Wait, how fast can you do the same at aerowalk?

o rly? well.. as i see it, it's far better than having MH and RA in virtually the same spot. not to mention that the extra YA is crucial and gives the player who isn't in control his chance at the game too.


the interceptor: slip.bsp's items can be replaced and moved about easily..
item placement shouldn't be a problem in maps since it can be changed easily.. however good layouts are the ones hard to find

The only way to know if these maps (read: Slip) are bra or anus is to play them. Someone setup PHPTourney, get some volunteers to admin the whole thing and start playing. Do it as a one map tournament to really try the maps out, one map/season.

mm ake, we are working on that )

just need vio to reply me