Hey all.

After some brainstorming with the guys at the #kenya IRC channel, I got the urge to do a defrag mod for QW. If you don't know what defrag is, here's an explanation:

Here's a video that shows it off: http://www.own-age.com/vids/1950

The mod will be stand-alone, fully fletched with all sorts of features that you may wish, rookie-targeted audience might be a good idea too. Some cool stuff that I could try to implement (these are NOT promises, just theories that I will need to investigate if they are practically possible):

* Transparent player model "ghost" that displays your last run.
* Showing key presses (old players can do runs, rookie spectators can see what keys are pressed).
* Simultaneous real-time raceing (both players race at the same time). <- this one should be possible
* ... fill in more!

What I would need:

* Graphics
* Maps
* Possible new server/client extension support

What is the interest of such a mod? Give your thoughts.

High interest on my behalf, having been a DeFrag player myself.
This gives players with bad connections the chance to play in a competition simply by uploading demos.

It could teach new players alot.
I do like the idea of both players racing...could also be useful for people showing the map or playing together.

I could write more on this but unfortunatley I do not have the time.
I'll probably check in tomorrow to see other opinions .

KTX has a "race" mod programmed to be added pretty soon featuring some of the ideas you mentionned (not all of them) along with some others. I think it is something definitely worth coding it since I would enjoy it .

Support for key presses has already been implemented.
More to come soon. Why not work on it together in KTX?

As long as you don't change any physics it sounds like an excellent idea. Would be nice if you could have it all in KTX though so you can just switch mode on the fly.

I like the kt-pro race mode alot.

Some good features from race mode:

*start is three,two,one, go!
*allows checkpoints
*displays length and detailed time statistics when it ends.
*qw-physics
*It's a server-side mod, players can easily switch between 4v4 and racing, without having to setup several clients etc.. Any tricks they learn can easily be transfered into similar stunts in dm2 quad-runs.


How i think it could be improved (huge task for any coder im afraid)
*Allow several players to race at the same time
*two modes for this, ghost-mode and push-mode (push mode could be very fun playing 4v4. Winner takes 8pts for the team, runner up 7pts etc..)
*push mode would either bounce the other player or just normal qw-physics
*Allow racing vs record (ghosted run).
*Save high scores on server.
*mvd-demorecording.
*more statistics: Display topspeed and avarage-speed after race.

If several players could race at the same time, this would be a more fun way for 7 players to wait in prewar while springz finishes his raid in WoW.

Will be kept.


Seems easy to me


Explain push mode better please Ghost mode seems kinda hard at first but I will look nito it more deeply


See ghost answer.


Definitely!


Goes without saying


And some other stats

Well, if this were to work in practice, it would mean that the player models would have to be able to move through each other. Because the last thing you want to happen is to suddenly run into another player, come to a complete stop, when you've got a world record run going. You wouldn't want that happening to anyone. Preferrably the other racing players would be invisible to me when I'm racing with them.

pushmode
Well the idea is that several players start at the same time, either there is 8 starting locations (pole position etc??? ) or if they all start on the same spot are ghosts during the first 3 seconds of race before collisions are enabled.

What i mean by push-mode with normal qw-physics is players that hops into another player from behind lose their speed (just as if you hit a wall ).

With bounce the player with higher speed bunny hopping into an opponent from behind would instead of losing his speed, bounce that player to the side (like a stone in curling), and maintain his own speed (unlike curling ).


ghostmode
mean the other players are invisible/transparent and everyone starts at the same time.

Pinball-mode.

Ok, I get the idea

* I want to work in QC (I am faster there).
* I want it to work (be playable) on any server, for example so you can just fire up your client, type "gamedir defrag" and record your demo.
* I want to know _exactly_ what I'm doing, so it will probably be based on another mod I wrote from scratch.

Some reasons I would rather make it it's own mod

I think the benefit of being able to play it in prewar on the same servers as you play real games outweights the benefit of a client mod.

Hehe, can't say I'm surprised there Molgrum.
Give us news when you have something public

Willgurth: race is anyway going to be in KTX soonish. It's been in plans for quite some time Instagib needs some polishing and then it will start

Great. I will try to host a new slide challenge 2007 then (maybe in december?).

Would it be that much of a bother to switch ports? I think more reasons to stay in prewar would be hated by various players out there
Deurk is free to join in if he wants to.


The hard feature to code here are push mode since it probably requires some pmove extension made by a leet physics coder (hey Tonik). Push mode is actually something I tried coding in the past without success, but I'll try to solve it somehow. The rest would be no problem.

Hehe thanks but I will obviously stick with KTX.
Actually, it might be a good way to see different implementations and options

Best thing is: if any fail, qw will still probably have a new race mode soon

My experience with mods is that unless you get a huge playerbase like CS, it has to be a feature of another mod to get played. For example q3 Promode (not the best example) offers decent gameplay, but me as a vq3 player hardly ever tried it before OSP (serverside mod ala ktx) added the option to toggle promode rules. Same goes for jawnmode, would it require an extra mod, i bet almost no one would have bothered trying it.

I guess a stand alone thing would be great, but i much rather see a mod that will bring players onto our servers, instead of leaving em.

My thinking is that non-DM mods would work better as not integrated into DM. Both CPMA and jawnmode are DM mods/tweaks that relies on DM stuff so that is only logical to implement in all the mods like KTX and Pro-X. But think about CTF or TF, those are played seperate from KTX because they are non DM mods with a totally different gameplay.

CPMA is the way to go for KTX concerning diversity..

CPMA contains:
- gameplay rulesets: VQ3, CPM, CQ3
- gameplay modes: Clan Arena, CTF, NTF (Not Team Fortress), Hoony Mode (which should be implemented in KTX, it's very fun!!)

I'd love to have CTF in KTX though as the last CTF mod i tried sucked ass. The physics were all weird and it all felt very outdated. Being able to just type "CTF" and then it's gg, would be - GG! TF might be too big of a change though with classes and shit.

there is already CTF in KTX. type /ctf..

as for TF.. a simple team mode with classes would rock.. like NTF from CPMA or Clan Arena from Warsow (classes: Spammer, Camper, Grunt )

anyway we're asking too much for the moment.. and the QW scene isn't really open to so many new modes.
let's hope the KTX team will be motivated to do some of the things requested.

I thought there was some kind of problems with it, or why are there no servers where CTF can be enabled? (because it can't, right?)

I really need to finish those websites so people know what they can DO with KTX.
CTF exists. And is pretty much ok except that people would like auto teamjoin and matchless options... which are on the way

The "three, two, one, go" was the most annoying thing in race mode IMHO
Of course now you can start a super-serious debate if it should be there or not. I just wanted to say that for me it just sucked and I'd welcome at least having a switch for it.
I mean server can start counting the time when you start moving. E.g. it can give you like 10 seconds interval and it's up to you when you start running. This method is used in lots of sports where you race/run/move alone and the measured time matters.

I kinda agree. It will be a toggable option: 3-2-1 or 10 seconds interval

I strongly disagree with Johnny, I love the 3-2-1 countdown. But if you can toggle it on/off I guess it's ok. But please make 3-2-1 the default, since all racers are used to it.

Then noone will use the 10 seconds interval due to qw-lazyness

I already did a defrag mod for qw, i just forgot to release it

I already got a lot of maps that i have created for it, and it got slide map support.

And it does not have the 3 2 1 GO! countdown, you just leave the start area and the timer starts.

I did have a server up for it at one point, and you can check it out here:

http://qexpo2005.quakedev.com/booths.php?tag=zalon
http://www.quakeexpo.com/booth.php?id=96

The second url, shows screenshots from the latest version

Wow that is awesome, the progress bar just accelerated like a racing car!

I think the 3 2 1 go is very important for racing. This means we can have the same starting procedure for races with several players. Also it isnt as long as 10 seconds Anyone would get bored waiting.

And it adds another statistic: start reaction time. (i know this isnt true reaction time as it's a countdown).

Another way would be to do it like in T&F, On Your marks!, get set!.... then wait for a random time intervall 1-2.5 secs BANG! Would ofcourse cause alot of false starts