Can we do something about this? At least start a discussion about it?

I find myself playing FFA more and more lately, but every time I play on xs4all, every other map is skipped because it's utterly worthless in FFA. I can start making a list of maps that are almost always skipped by next_map votes if necessary, but it should be fairly obvious which maps aren't that great.

Also, there's quite a few good custom FFA maps out there - maps far better than most of the ExMx, ukcladm2 (sp?), etc. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the maps that have been/will be tried in FTK introduced into the map pool.

Some of the maps that got good feedback:
bsdm6
del1
hook
pdm18
qtdm3
shine

About the episode maps, I know they are not popular but it's part of Quake and part of history of the XS4ALL FFA server and that's the main reason to keep some of them in, and I think I included the more 'popular' exmx maps.

If there are more custom maps to be added we gonna have a mapcycle of three weeks but great maps can always be included (del1 and another FTK map are already in the mappool). I have to say though, why mention new custom maps, there are indeed plenty of 10-year old custom maps who rock (apparantly not ukcldm2, but UK people like it !!!).

If it was me I would never inlcude DM4 or ZTNDM3 though

I recently joined and there was a map "Blood-Thirst by Tiddles". I quit because downloading took ages. What map is this?

Flep, wouldn't it be wise to perhaps remove the eps maps? everytime i play they get skipped, i even next_map myself as soon as i see them

Don't wanna be stuck in the past if you know what i mean

The main reason i dont play very often at xs4all is the map pool. I agree of geting rid of the boring old maps, such as the exmx maps and ukul and stuff. dm2, dm3, dm4, dm6, skull, aero, ztn, and some new fun custom maps should be fine imo

yup no time on x4all cause the map pool. change something to attract my superskills to server.

Why not make two servers with different mappools ? The Rookie FFA could become lets say an oldschool server with all the exmx maps and on the other one there are new fresh maps :]

As said I will not remove all episode maps, believe it or not there are people who love to play them. Perhaps one person should add some RL's or LG's on certain maps at certain spots so the camping of those areas will be reduced and people will find it easier to gain a weapon (OMG DONT KNOW HOW TO GET TO RL!!!).

And if there are episode maps to be removed, e1m2 is one of them or e3m1 or e1m5 which are fairly popular. It's pretty easy to put all episode maps under one name and ban them. Oh wait, let's ban QuakeWorld and let's play quake 5.

eps for the pro, customs for the show.

edit:
And I don't mean the way they changed the maps for teamplay, that's just too much.

It's a new map by Tiddles currently being tested on the server.

blood-thirst is a lot of fun

maplist as it is now:
dm2
e4m3 - the map with the many quads
dm4
dm3
ultrav
aerowalk
e4m8 - The Lost City (very big, but enjoyable if you know your way) (removed this one due to server crash abilities )
enraged
e4m2 - Tower of Despair (try to run both quads, you'll rag up frags)
dm6
ztndm3
e3m3 - Tomb of Terror (not my favourite but get your rl/ra and stay in that area for a lot of frags)
a2
cmt3
cmt4
e3m4 - Satan's Dark Delight (difficult map, try to get the quad and rush to RA area)
pkeg1
e1m5 - Gloom Keep (bit campy at RL imo)
spinev2
debello
dm1ex - upgraded DM1
e3m1 - Termination Central (by 'popular' demand)
rwild
e2m2 - tried the TDM version, wasn't appreciated then
e1m1 - TB3
qffldm2
blood-thirst
qffldm5
head-shot
del1
e2m4 - Ebon Fortress (can be fun, not my favorite as well, give e2m5 instead)
q3dm6QW
ukcldm2

So as you can see there are 9 episode maps out of 33 maps.

Any chance for a proper betatesting release of blood-thirst? I'd like to try it.

http://qwplayers.org/oldman/blood-thirst.bsp.gz

Oh nice. This looks like ffa fun indeed.
Is it not fully VISed or just built with poly-waste in mind? The r_speeds are insanely high (1500) (even more than on my very open mvdsv-kg map). :\

hi, blood-thirst is actually finished, it also has colored lighting, as soon as i can, i'll post a url for the lit, on todays very fast pcs it runs fine, well it should,

Can anyone tell me why I cant connect on xs4all FFA ? I can connect on every other server, but after connecting notthing happends (

quake.xs4all.nl ? should work ;P

thx now it worked :S

blood-thirst, played this one first time today, and oh boy it's a banger!

one of the best ffa maps i've ever played.

Blood-thirst is great from a gaming perspective, but I doubt I'd be able to play it in windows (have to play with yieldcpu), or with software for that matter


The maplist and my comments:

e4m3 - Chaotic due to the amount of quads. It feels almost like playing another game, or at least a mod for QW. That, and the architecture isn't that great. Lots of long, long hallways and dead ends that don't give any rewards in terms of armor/weapons. Hot & cold gameplay.
dm4 - bit small for more than 6-8 players, gets really cramped with 12+ connected, but I like cramped so it's ok with me.
dm3 - why? I know people like dm3, but it has to be one of the worst FFA maps out there... get a weapon to RA and you're invincible unless you screw it up.
ultrav - great! lots of action, hard to get quad, even harder to keep quad. I like it.
aerowalk - pretty much same as ultrav.
e4m8 - The Lost City - I know my way around, and I don't like it one bit. Not enough weapons for a map this size.
enraged - don't think I've played this one
e4m2 - Tower of Despair - Haven't played it in years, gets next_mapped every time I've been in.
dm6 - same as dm4
ztndm3 - I hate this map because of the architecture. You feel like a bat in a cage when trying to bunny anywhere. Just not built for today's QW.
e3m3 - Tomb of Terror - Just camp RA for an easy win. Not the least bit interesting.
a2 - Bit too easy to control the map from RA. Not one of the best custom maps I've played.
cmt3 - This gets skipped alot also, I think it's more suited for 4on4 than FFA.
cmt4 - Where CMT4 fails in 4on4, I think it excels in FFA. The pent is tricky to get when there's enough players around, and controlling any area is pretty challenging. Getting back to quad in time to defend it is key. This map is a great example of how a big FFA map should be built.
e3m4 - Satan's Dark Delight - singleplayer map, 'nuf said. Too much water (that you're stuck in), lifts, buttons, platforms etc. There's just no action on the map.
pkeg1 - alot like dm4, but I think I like it even more. Armors more out in the open, etc.
e1m5 - Gloom Keep - singleplayer map. Once again, not enough weapons and too much singleplayer enviroment.
spinev2 - I like it.
debello - A bit odd gameplay, but it works. Not one of the best maps, but certainly not one of the worst either.
dm1ex - upgraded DM1 - just got a chance to play this, and I LOVE it. It keeps everything that's great about DM1 and just spices up things with itemization. Awesome.
e3m1 - Termination Central (by 'popular' demand) - Been many years since I played CTF on this. Can't remember if it's any good or not.
rwild - Got a chance to play this as well, just now. Were only 7 players or so though, so the map felt a bit empty. Might have some good potential with more players though.
e2m2 - One of the better ExMy maps, and even then, it's not very good. Had a chance to play this also,and I didn't like it any more than the first time I played it. Crampy and limited movement everywhere. Only one RL. Blah.
e1m1 - TB3 - you mean e1m2 right? And I would say it's pretty bad for FFA. Gets skipped also.
qffldm2 - Bit better than qffldm5 mentioned below, but still pretty boring. Too easy to camp quad.
blood-thirst - I like it alot. Wish it were a bit faster though. Can only play in Linux
qffldm5 - Quite possibly one of the worst maps in the pool atm. Big, confusing, no real sense to doing anything other than camping armors. People see this and they usually drop before they vote next_map.
head-shot - One of the best maps I've ever played. Love it.
del1 - Ditto as headshot.
e2m4 - Ebon Fortress - again, too much singleplayer. Slow, boring gameplay.
q3dm6QW - Don't think I've played this (can't be sure though).
ukcldm2 - Can you say cramped hallways? Can't even jump. This map is basically three rooms and a bunch of long, low corridors. You're either falling asleep due to lack of enemies around (one half of the map) or you can hardly get out of the room cause there's rockets flying eveywhere (other half of the map). Bad balance.

That said, those are just my opinions. I love fast, action-packed, mayhem-maps where you can't really survive more than a minute at most.

edit: Got to play some of the maps I've missed before tonight, so I updated the post

i mostly agree with dakoth. btw. you should try enraged out.



why is downloading rate limited to 15kb/sec on xs4all?

have to add something about e1m2 and cmt3, they are among the maps in 4on4 compo's, therefor I added them so not so good players get a chance to getting to know the map a little bit more, which can come in handy in the leagues .

edit: and DM3 ofcourse they are not my favorite maps either

Default sv_maxdrate was 10000 I changed it to 100000 don't know how fast it is now.

Awww.

I don't really get the logic behind this "you get used to 4on4 maps whilst playing ffa" -thing.

It's like forcing people to play soccer on a baseball field.
Dm3 and especially e1m2, which lacks weapons ( 1 rl per 10 players is not that much), are among the worst ffa maps around.


However, i really enjoy how the modern mappers have patience and tools to make maps full of details and less brick like.
Since ID-maps have been liberated (please inform if this is incorrect), I'd love to see more detailed versions of TB3 maps.

I get an error message in winrar: The archive is either in unknown format or damaged.

Couldn't find the map anywere else so help would be appreciated

It still makes you learn to play soccer, even though the settings are different you get in touch with a ball and you can do a lot of different stuff on a baseball field that's football related, we actually played a lot of football (or soccer) on a baseball field, no grass around so .

The thing is you don't learn to play 4on4, but you know how to move around on the map, the basics as well. Because you only have one RL on the whole map you might realize that it's frikkin' important to make sure you guard that RL in a 4on4 game. I'm not saying it's the best way, but that's how I learned the map layout on DM2, DM3, E1M2 and CMT4 (Andromeda 9) as well .

@Dakoth:
Actually the cramped hallways on ukcldm2 are pretty cool for movement I think because you have to use a slightly different bunnyhop style (more rapid jumping, and less vigorous mouse sweeps). Makes a nice change from the normal way.

Regarding ztndm3, I think the architecture is fantastic, that has always been ztn's strongpoint - creating flowing maps with plenty of death-from-above gameplay. It's one of the best connected maps there is, you can get from anywhere to anywhere in just a few seconds. Ok so there's a few steps causing problems but I think qw would be pretty boring if we just played on a plain flat surface. There's still room for some nice moves (curl jump from YA spawn to RL, double ramp jump to quad, RJ from GA to RA) and you can still do some pretty long bunny-runs (e.g. from sng you can go 3 ways for quite a long distance). OK, so in a jam-packed ffa session your chances of getting very far are pretty slim, but then the map was really only designed for 2-6 players.

@PEKTOPAHKY
I actually agree with Flepser here - sure, the pros don't play football on a baseball field, but when you are a kid learning to play you don't play at Wembley stadium either, you play out in the street, in your garden, at the park with 2 coats for goalposts or whatever. And during that time you are learning basic skills.

When I started playing QW online I had a 'head start' in that I'd already been playing FFA vs bots for a few months beforehand. So this had helped with basic aiming skills and of course map knowledge. Now of course when I played my first teamgames I didn't even know the big maps properly (dm3/androm9/ukcldm2) but playing FFA on those maps helped a lot. Barrysworld FFA server using to run a rotation of dm2-dm3-ukcldm2-e4m3-ztndm3 and that was great for learning the first 3 maps. You get to know the moves (jumps, shots etc) and how to time items. I think it can really help getting used to doing quad runs on certain maps too. Heck even in modern day era I found playing FFA on CMT1B/CMT3 useful for this.

pm_airstep 1

The connectivity is not the problem; in fact, as far as connectivity goes, it's one of the best maps around. The problem is speed. Leaning walls, tight 90-180 degree turns with virtually no space to maneuver, steps that inhibit bunnying - it all adds up. There's practically zero chance of improving your speed on the map, because there's no place you can go any faster than one, maybe two jumps in a row. The one spot on the map that DOESN'T somehow counteract movement is the hallway between GL and YA, and the entrance to either of those rooms.

I hope that makes sense.