Hi!

Yesterday Molgrum opened a 4v4 mix @ enraged (a shame that this map cannot be found on either shup hub or Blueyondergames nor qwplayers.org and we played a few mixes there. Although we random picked it was always very even and ecxiting games on it.
Iam sure Iam not the only one how really liked playing there because the gamestyle is very refreshing and the experience to be discharged @ quad, 2 minutes before end is somehow interessting
Some claimed that there is too less health on this map but I think thats one of the most challenging parts of this map, because you have to use every single Healthpack you can find to survive. And too, its one of the fastest maps in qw (that I know) you can gain speed and jump around just like I expect in a fast paced game like quakeworld.
And did someone manged to do this RA Jump inGame ?
I really would be pleased to play more mixes on this map, because this map has two things which are really hard to achive when beeing a mapdesigner. A playable map which looks great as well.
What do you think of item placement ? Would you change something?
Let us discuss..

Screenshot 1 Screenshot2
Screenshot 3


locs by flintheart

If more people are interested in mixing here and learning the map, comment and state your IRC nick if you want to play tonight. Also write when you can play, preferably in CET.

Current mix:
molgrum (backup, can pass the spot to someone else)
Defcon_5
Zaka
jO|n
recowsky
eizid
Torben

Defcon_5 (maybe we have some EQL Matches) but Iam here from 19cet till 24cet)

i can try

I spec'd 2 rounds last night. I don't like it. Problem is not the item replacement or anything like that but it uses very ugly textures. I wish ezquake could greyscale stuff on the fly, that would help a bit with ugly maps.

Would be cool to learn this map anyway, I might sign up. Don't know yet.

I upped it now:
http://shub-hub.com/files/maps_multiplayer/enraged.zip
Original link is http://jago.pp.fi/maps/Quake/enraged.zip


edit: I want to watch some demos!

Demos are available at ChallengeTV: http://www.challenge-tv.com/index.php?mode=demos&game=2&type=2

Bother Jago about it! I'm sure he appreciates any feedback, you can find him in #terrafusion @ Qnet

I could try a game or two.

The mix will probably start at 22 CET, but if enough people are ready sooner we can even start at 21 CET. Join #kenya in Quakenet and say when you're ready!

It has begun! Watch now @ easy.quakeworld.dk:28502

Was fun to play the map, few things i'm still not sure on.

Elevator around corner of red (going to rl, up at the cells pack there i believe, watching to rl way) there's a nice edge there but you can't defend from rl with it.
Getting from quad -> rl should be harder, perhaps close the big entrance and keep the smaller one on the side so people defending ya side can get their rls a bit easier.
Red very defendable, 1 guy could hold it forever. Getting ring for a takeover seems fun though
Perhaps place a bit more ammo here and there, nail pack with sng and rocket pack at yellow for example.
Green armor @ ssg area move mega to underwater tubes in middle, 1 LG pack at LG are some other things that come to mind.

But hard to say after 1 game.

Oh one more thing: place plates on the ground where spawns are or something like that.

Soon we'll have tb4. Would be fun imo to have a map like this.

i've seen a demo with a mix on this map.. was really enjoyable
hope it gets improved & played more

also a nice 24bits texture set wouldn't hurt as i don't like the texturing scheme so much

Yes I think many agree about that QUAD->RL being too easy to do.

Aquashark:
I asked Jago about it and he says he has used 2 different texture sets for this map, one of them has 24bit textures and the other doesn't, so until someone can make a 24bit version of the other set...

worthless loc, i'm about to do a new one...

Edit: Ok, here it is:
http://web.telia.com/~u46505083/Quake/qw_locs.zip
have fun, don't be afraid coming with suggestions for maps, loc-marks etc.!

Edit2: Ok, for those of you who downloaded it the last hour (if anybody hah) ... redownload it cause i changed some stuff ( thanx molgrum 8) )

Edit3: just screw this post, the locs are on top now of this thread, wuhu!

Very nice, thanks for these!

Kinda nice map, and yes it's fast.. very fast.
Way to little healt packs, way to little.. and not enough rocks (or maybe i just didn't find them)

I think that excatly this fact makes the map interessting because you never can gain full control of the map too fast and too easy. Its very easy to hold YA and RL if there was more rocks or health. And thats what makes a good player. Dont damage yourself too much with RL, otherwise you are fucked up. So in my opinion ( and iam alwasy low on rocks and hp) its very good for that map to not have too much ammo and health if you are in control of the map...

I think item placement is good, but i've just exploring it, not really playing, so i may be wrong.

BTW, dm6 have only one rocket pack and still rule... I don't like maps with lots of ammo in any game, because gameplay is too much about spam on them. Spam with QW rockets is almost like spam with nukes btw.

lesser ammo the better

I really like this map allot and think it should be introduced in some tournament form. Only thing they could add or change in my opinion is:

- Put an ssg at ya with some ssg ammo (this to make it more easy to defend)
- Put the MH into the water area at lg (current position not really ok)
- Make a tunnel from lg to the water area behind it (so you can sneak to lg)
- Put a GA on top of the current MH area behind the sg (to make this part more interesting and better to defend)

Other then that it already is a nice map to play :]
Kenya Lives! :E

Greetz

Many people have good ideas. I helped Jago in doing the map, and it's perhaps possible to still do changes, if he has the original .map file.. (I have a somewhat earlier version, it'd require a lot more work to go with that.)

But changing maps can be a neverending circle, and I don't want it to be that. So what is needed is some consensus that:
-Are changes needed?
-What would they be?

-

I understand from Molgrum's talk that the main concern is that YA is too much of a dead end that is very hard to escape when the RA holding enemy team attacks with quad.
In DM3 there are 2 routes + a teleport away from the YA for example. In E1M2 on the other hand, the mega is a dead end (you can spam and toy with the teleports for defence though), while from the rl there are a few ways out. And in DM2 I guess the armors have in general multiple ways except the ya tele, it's a bit different as there is so much stuff.
In Enraged, one could for example add a teleport from the YA side to near the main cross above the water bridge, in the air aerowalk style so you'd fly out from the wall towards the SNG.
One alternative is also to move the ssg to YA to make it a bit of a stronger easier to hold place.

Also one thing I've heard about is the stairs/ramp from cross to RA. It's tricky to do that stuff with quake physics. Straight stairs work fine but then you can't jump high from them. If you combine ramps and narrow stairs (and the two walls when the stairs go through the floor), there are a lot of problems getting stuck, it just doesn't work. So a clip brush was added to the stairs as a best compromise. Is this working fine enough?

One minor thing that should be changed is the slight bump in the floor at YA. That's the only definitely clear one to me right now.

Btw, what is the gameplay reason for moving mega? This is not meant to disapprove, just asking as I can see from the mix demo that you probably have a better view of the map's gameplay than I do.

I like that you guys play the map and also have ideas on how to make it better.

I'd like to see some kind of consensus on what to change and why.
Thanks!

Here are my opinions on the map:

* The most obvious fixes are the RA stairs that I think should remove the clip and raise up the sideramps. The YA platform and lift that you also get clumsily stuck on due to small edges needs fixing too.

* I agree with Skillah about adding an SSG somewhere near YA, perhaps behind the spawn point is my suggestion.

* More nails on the map! Nailguns are really useful on this map and I would like to use them more

* Talking about nailguns, the RA SNG should be moved up away from the stairs, so you don't have to grab it while walking up but can save it for teammates.

* Adding GA somewhere at MEGA is a good idea, because this area is also defendable, why not make a reason to defend it?

* Add another way to LG, it is definitely more fun with a connected watersystem so I would vote for that.

* Exit from YA. I thought it would be more original if the map used an air-tube escape route from YA, but anything is good for me really, I just want an instant way out of there!

* The rocket pack at tele should be moved to YA, this way all the armors would have one rocket pack and one cell pack to dispose of. My suggestion is to place the rockets in the water (near the ladder somewhere) to increase the mobility in the map.

* YA needs some health, preferably above the lift and preferably not too much as this area should be easy flooded if the opponent is holding both of the armors. I think one small health above lift and one large in the water/ring area would be nice.

* I'm not sure if the megahealth should be moved, I have to reserve myself on that issue for the time being. If it is not moved, i would suggest adding more health under the water so it is useful to go there. Move some of the health away from RA would be good.

I've now provided Bambuz with the .map file so he can look into implementing the suggested changes. I will be following the discussion here and oversee the changes being made.