did a nquake search on google.. something interesting showed up ^_^

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590882
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587620

luckily AlexMax saves the day: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584085

It seems that other guys in the board laughed at MonkeyG1984 statements too.

netQuake guys should get over with that predicition is standard in almost every game released after original quake because no prediction = crippled netplay. It is silly, id released QW the same way they released patches for their other games, to improve gameplay, and i have never seen Q2 player who thinks that q2 v1.00 is better than q2 v3.20

People believe all sorts of weird things.

Some think (Net)Quake is the best game ever. Some think QuakeWorld is.

there are plenty of differences between netquaqke and qw. ie: watervis, physics etc

so, what tonik said

Regular Quake physic is more 'tamed' than Quakeworld one, that's all. Everytime i play singleplayer in joequake (currently i play Travail, great mod, be sure to download it!) i feels weird because jumps are different. But after 10 minutes or something about it i get used to it and it plays as well as Quakeworld. I don't mind fog under water. But lack-of-prediction is what makes online gameplay unsmooth. NetQuakers says that prediction make weird things happen - yes, but usually on pings more than 100, below it doesn't do anything bad. And most of QuakeWorld players nowadays have connections that allow them to play at pings below 100 ms... Superior netcode=better online experience.

And believe it or not, QuakeWorld IS actually best game ever(well, maybe fps, cuz best rts ever is Starcraft). Be it over net, on lan, or with bots ;P

No offense, but netquake at 30 ping feels closer to original Quake physics than 30 ping QW, simply because the way that QW over exaggerates things that have become a staple in QW gameplay. It really is apples vs oranges. NetQuake is more like QUAKE and QW is more like MATRIX-Quake. Honestly, Q2, Warsow, Quake3, HL2, CPMA, and Quake4, have better prediction than QW. The delusional fact of QW was they [id] didnt try to preserve the original feel of singleplayer when they implemented the prediction code. In QW hpbs skip around and in-flight entities (nails/rockets) are just a glimps. QW prediction code is like mouse acceleration, i'd rather have it OFF and play with the RAW feel.


EDIT: What I mean is that ticrate and prediction aren't really the same thing, but on QW servers it's like a very low ticrate (exaggerated physics), thus a QW bunny hop is perpetually a speed gain where you cant pull that off in a vanilla Quake single player game.

Care to elaborate a bit more? If you feel so sure about it you should be able to produce a solid explanation about it right?

They have sounds (jump, pickup) and +attack prediction [Let's stop the offtopic talk here maybe?]

BTW This topic would be interesting to me only if most of the matches played in QW had ping below 30, but if you have a look at last 10 matches played in NQR, 9 of 10 matches have players with ping higher than 36...

Quake is Quake
Netquake is Netquake
QuakeWorld is QuakeWorld

And for me QW is the game that feels most "accurate" online even though it has not much in common with the gameplay of Quake itself (the Singleplayer that is).

"In QW hpbs skip around and in-flight entities (nails/rockets) are just a glimps." doenst appear like this in other engines. not even NetQuake.
Didnt Tonik just make some beta code that eliminated this?? Get on warsow at > 200 ping watch the game. Even though your movements are lagged to hell in a handbasket, you still see everyone/thing else fluid.

who plays at >200ms ping anyway?
i don't even play at >80ms

Netquake players on dialup from Europe who play on US servers.

Right, i was using 200 as an example on warsow compared to QW server at 50ping. The entities like rockets, nails, and grenades (even hpbs) movements arent as fluid. Yet they are even in netQuake. Further up i stated a 30 ping comparison, so i'll rephrase that and say that anything sub 50 ping doesnt need much prediction. NetQuake at sub 50 ping feels fluid whereas QW 50ping has a gritty feel. If you lanned a netquake server at a ticrate of 0.001, the physics/movements (bunnyhop) is pretty damn close to QW. But to me, that ticrate is so low, it doesnt feel like a singleplayer game physics. Maybe its a cfg /rate setting but thats pretty much why netQuakers dont prefer QW And IMHO the RL in QW feels more like a traceline shot than a moving object, maybe prediction determines a "hit" when the player press +attack and where the aim is at that frametime?

Because it isn't. QW physic is MULTIPLAYER physic. Better for movement and tricks. In Q4 singleplayer you have upgradeable guns and different physic than in multiplayer. The reason is simple - both these things are good for singleplayer, but worse for multiplayer, and vice versa, that's why they made these two gamemodes separate.

When i run around aerowalk with nQ (singleplayer) physic, it feels like someone steal my legs and replaced them with clay ones covered in glue...

IMO this is the main reason ppl like QuakeWorld more (and when i say people, i mean people, not "some people". QuakeWorld gameplay is much closer to PK, Warsow and CPMA ones - it's fast, and movement is one of major skills.

Prediction is just a bonus to other things that make QW so great. It makes internet play more enjoyable. This may means nothing to NA guys, but don't forget that you have best net infrastructure in the world, your pings on american servers are close to latency on lan, good for you, but rest of the world is not so lucky. If you still think no prediction > prediction, connect wit your netQuake client to european server (if there are any) and play for some time with high ping. Good luck, you will be light years after real action on the server...

Keep in mind that games like CS, ET, CoD, Battlefield, Q2 Q3 Q4 (say hi to railgun ) would be simply UNPLAYABLE for about 3/4 of players if they don't have prediction.

And my rockets are flying normally

actually NA is lagging behind in highspeed internet spreading.. replace NA with Sweden and it's 100% correct.

i don't play QW mostly for the prediction, but for the physics.

Uh... NA connections are behind European connections (on average, I've heard some European countries have trouble with external connections) but not by much. Main reason is the routing ;(. I ping better to a few European servers than West coast servers. And I don't see a single person from NA in this thread praising netquake D;?

I've write about NA people because lot of nQ players are from here. And yes, routing is a big problem, but not only in america, i have better pings to spain than to russia xD. And lot depends actually on speed of connection, i think not everyone can afford to have hi-speed net at home. I was surprised that many ppl in america still use 56k modems - these are worst solution in my country, connection is horribly expensive and slow. Another thing are download limits - something common here 3-4 years ago, but now very rare. I have 2Mb connection (1/4 MB), no download limits, and it's one of the cheapest solutions.

off-topic..
With my current connection (Sweden) i have =< 39ms qw-ping to hungary, st petersburg and london (1500km, 600km and 1500km from stockholm).

Clearly shows that the area where we can play low-ping games is becoming larger.. dunno how this compares to US tho?

edit: inside sweden distances > 1000km i still have 13ms in qw.

This WAS a side effect, not a planned condition. Much like the Rocket-Jump. The fact that the way that the netcode in QW reduced the friction made it possible to do cool tricks. If they added double air/wall jumps then I would be convinced.
I said that earlier ...

You can bash netQuake for it's netcode, when playing singleplayer on aerowalk, since you are just used to different laws of quake Physics.
My main point is that, I dont think that the quakeWorld physics was an intent, but a mere oversight that ended up being more fun than the limits of singleplayer physic. :|

Well, strafe-jumping was also a side effect, "bug", but after id realizes it adds more depth to Q2 gameplay and is simply fun, they decided to reproduce this bug in Q3 and Q4. Bunnyhopping was lost during coding the Q2, but games like WARSOW CPMA PK reproduces it because it is fun. So, why should we start playing something that takes away such cool feature, be it intented or not? QW is simply next, final step in Quake 1 multiplayer evolution...

I agree with both of you, SputnikUtah and Herb. I don't think the QW MP physics were intended by id when creating Quakeworld in the first place, and to play a Netquake because it was once upon a time "supposed" to be like that is just stupid.

I don't think that guy realize what he's missing out on.

qw>all

Bunny hoping works in q2, its just in-airacceleration that is removed. When playing with this variable in q2-console, u can get it to feel similiar to qw if I recall correctly.

I didn't say it was removed :> It was lost because it was no longer possible with standard Q2 physic.

As a total coincidence i bumped into a reply by Zoid from the 11th of July 2003 on Slashdot.org where he comments on a news item about some Q3 mod that has QW physics


Maybe it's no news or anything, i just thought it was so spooky when i bumped into it with this thread up and all that i couldn't resist.

Being now used to QW, I find NetQuake unplayable in terms of lag.

I think one major problem in the USA-based NetQuake community is a lot of the players view ProQuake 3.50 as the holy grail.

ProQuake 3.50 is incredibly hard to break in with all the flaws of GLQuake like FOV doesn't write to the config, the lack of a freelook cvar and most of the other flaws of the original Quake. Plus the original Quake (like the original Quakeworld) is quite flawed. Prior to ezQuake 1.8, no engine had an Intel display adapter and the modded Quakeworld engines, as far as I know, to have a system clock fix.

NetQuake at 70 ping or less, or especially 30, is quite a great experience on a public server if you use a proper NetQuake engine (ProQuake, JoeQuake or Qrack. DarkPlaces can be difficult to setup. FTEQW has what I would describe as the appearance of frame lag when connected to an NQ server.)

But I wouldn't recommend ProQuake 3.50 to anyone, and most of the old NetQuake players are so set in their ways as to not see not only the flaws of the client but that the old crusty Quake look isn't very fitting for 2008.

ProQuake has evolved beyond 3.50 now, retaining the original GLQuake look. It has map download via HTTP (takes 2 seconds for a map to download) and a built-in server browser and a ton of fixes from numerous different engines from FitzQuake to ezQuake.

However, I don't see any way ProQuake can be the future. The classic Quake look, unless someone is sentimental about it or is playing single player, doesn't really look nice compared to all the fine replacement elements have been redeveloped over the years.

I know most Quakeworld enthusiasts really like Quakeworld, but have you considered that the Quakeworld engines have really strayed far from the point, click and shoot simpleness of the original Quake? I mean ezQuake has 5-8 pages of settings for a game that is mostly grab rocket launcher and shoot enemy.

No, it's not grab rl n' shoot. QW is about:

-aim
-movement
-timing
-map control
-teamplay (unless it's dm or duel)
-outsmarting enemy
-using proper weapons in different situations

Every player have his own taste. You can cutomize QW to look the way YOU want. I don't want old, muddy textures from original quake. I like industrial/sci-fi theme, simple items, brightskins, minimalistic particle effects, left-handed gun models, and i can made my QW look like that.

I don't want simplicity, i want possibilities.

Reason for so many options is to make QW easier customizable for new players that don't know anything about console commands.

I don't care about original Quake simpleness... or original physic... for me original Quake is old, dust covered relict, that is nice to play from time to time. QW have evolved and now is far from it - and it's better.

If you guys want to "play the game the way it's meant to be" you should all use fov 90, no crosshair and hold key for mouse look. Because that's how people played Quake when it came out.

We are lucky that these fine men never got QW "perfected".

quake is about bouncing everywhere and kill people.