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Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
there was some talk about this in some other thread (http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=47164) but that thread derailed into off-topicness. the problem is rockets and grenades that jitter or 'jump' and not travel smoothly. it's most notable at slow demospeeds for me. see the video here (http://www.box.net/shared/fg7fqayi62) to see the jitter in action.
is this only in the demo or in the actual game as well? is it related to the demorecording/mvd? is it to do with the serversettings or clientside?
my goal is to use already recorded demos for a movie so i hope there is some setting that helps to take out the jitter from the .mvd.
please post if you have any insight into this. Spzman maybe.. you gave some hints at the other thread but i didn't really understand what causes this problem in the first place. thks!
Member
569 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
wouldnt that sort of thing happen when capture_fps isnt a multiple of demo_fps. Or other way around?
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
In demos? Try using cl_newlerp 0.1 and see what happens.
Member
386 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
In a similar vein, I have a slight problem with jittery projectile movement, but only in actual play, and not demos. I've tried correcting it by playing with, and without, cl_newlerp 0.1, but to no avail.
My ping isn't exactly unstable, and my framerate is as smooth as glass, so I'm guessing it's some malconfiguration on my part. Does anyone have any ideas?
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
What's your average ping to a server? Use: tping -n100 -d0 address And paste the results here.
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
i think cl_newlerp is what i need. will try it in windows and report back. thanks!
Member
386 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
Well, I guess my ping was less stable than I thought. That mystery's solved.
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
cl_newlerp doesn't seem to change anything for the jitter of the rocket. i tried it with 0, 0.1, 1. projectiles stil move very jumpy at slower demospeeds.
do i have to reload the demo for the change to take effect? changing the value on the fly did have zero impact.
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
You need to have .MVD demo and fps-i physics enabled. .QWDs are problematic ones, so if you have jittering rockets there who knows what helps, if anything.
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
yea it's a .mvd. you can see it in my vid, too. cl_independentphysics is set to "1".
this seems to be a tricky one, anyone else with a guess as to what might cause this?
Administrator
1025 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
Locked your fps to x * 77 and set cl_physfps 77 ?
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
Locked your fps to x * 77 and set cl_physfps 77 ? i set both to 77 to make sure but it didn't work. the rocket is still moving in 'bursts'. i'm using +set cl_independentphysics 1, cl_maxfps 77, cl_physfps 77. :/ edit: also, wouldn't those settings only take effect when set *before* the mvd was recorded? i'm not so good with this stuff but it seems to me the problem is with the playing of the demo not the recorded game itself. i read something about mvd's interploating the movement of stuff and there seems to be a lack of interpolation in my demos?
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
If you have ezQuake from nightly builds, then it doesn't matter what your physfps (or maxfps for that matter) is during QTV or demo playback. Qqshka changed the FPS-I behaviour a long time ago for QTV/demos, but the change is in 2.0 alpha builds still. there seems to be a lack of interpolation in my demos? Where's your config then?
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
yea, i only set these values because it was suggested. i didn't have any of these set before, except cl_indep.phys. i could post my config but i don't think it would change anything really. i have this problem in seperate quake installs even. one is using a ezq 2.0 alpha from nightly build, the other one camquake i.e. ezq 1.9 stable. different configs too, of course. i'll make a fresh nquake install and leave all settings untouched, 1 sec. edit: ok i can confirm this happens in a new nquake install, no variables changed whatsoever, using ezq 1.9.3 here is the config, which is the default config from nquake. (using cfg_save_unchanged 0 or the post would be too long) //Only variables with non-default values are listed below.
//You can use "cfg_save_unchanged 1" to save all variables.
//MultiView Demos
mvd_info_setup "%6n %3f %10l %4a %4h %3w"
//Player Settings
b_switch "7"
w_switch "7"
bottomcolor "2"
topcolor "11"
rate "25000"
skin "base"
//Teamplay Communications
tp_weapon_order "78653241"
//Skin Settings
noskins "2"
//Console Settings
con_funchars_mode "1"
con_notifylines "5"
con_notifytime "4"
con_particles_alpha "0"
gl_consolefont "charset_id3"
log_dir "qw/matchinfo/logs"
scr_conspeed "9999"
//Chat Settings
ignore_flood "2"
//FPS and EyeCandy Settings
cl_deadbodyFilter "1"
cl_fakeshaft "0.8"
cl_gibFilter "1"
cl_maxfps "308"
cl_muzzleflash "0"
cl_physfps "77"
r_powerupGlow "2"
r_rocketTrail "3"
//Particle Effects
gl_bounceparticles "0"
gl_part_blobs "1"
gl_part_blood "1"
gl_part_explosions "1"
gl_part_gunshots "1"
gl_part_inferno "1"
gl_part_lavasplash "1"
gl_part_spikes "1"
gl_part_telesplash "1"
gl_part_trails "1"
gl_particle_fire "1"
//Lighting
gl_lighting_colour "1"
gl_lighting_vertex "1"
r_shadows "1"
//Turbulency and Sky Settings
gl_caustics "1"
gl_turbfog "1"
r_skycolor "0"
r_watercolor "50 80 120"
//Weapon View Model Settings
cl_bob "0"
cl_bobcycle "0"
cl_bobup "0"
cl_filterdrawviewmodel "1"
r_viewmodelSize "0.9"
r_viewmodeloffset "0"
//Texture Settings
gl_max_size "2048"
gl_subdivide_size "128"
gl_texturemode "gl_linear_mipmap_linear"
//Config Management
cfg_legacy_exec "0"
cfg_save_sysinfo "1"
//OpenGL Rendering
gl_clear "1"
gl_lightning_size "0"
gl_nailtrail "1"
gl_triplebuffer "0"
r_farclip "15372"
//System Settings
sys_yieldcpu "1"
//Video Settings
vid_conheight "384"
vid_conwidth "512"
vid_customheight "768"
vid_customwidth "1024"
vid_displayfrequency "75"
vid_hwgammacontrol "1"
vid_mode "6"
vid_vsync "0.0"
//Sound Settings
bgmvolume "0.5"
cl_staticSounds "0"
s_ambientlevel "0"
s_khz "44"
s_noextraupdate "1"
volume "0.5"
//Input - Keyboard
allow_scripts "0"
cl_backspeed "320"
cl_forwardspeed "320"
cl_sidespeed "350"
cl_upspeed "350"
//Input - Misc
sensitivity "7.4"
//Network Settings
cl_crypt_rcon "0"
cl_timeout "600"
cl_useproxy "1"
//Server Browser
sb_autoupdate "0"
sb_hideempty "0"
sb_inforetries "1"
sb_infospersec "200"
sb_infotimeout "400"
sb_pings "1"
sb_pingspersec "200"
sb_pingtimeout "400"
//Status Bar and Scoreboard
con_fragmessages "0"
scr_drawHFrags "3"
scr_newhud "1"
scr_scoreboard_fillcolored "3"
scr_scoreboard_forcecolors "0"
//Crosshair Settings
crosshair "1"
crosshairimage "crossint"
//Screen Settings
cl_democlock_y "-0.01"
cl_gameclock "4"
cl_gameclock_x "22.4"
cl_gameclock_y "31.3"
cl_onload "console"
gl_contrast "1.2"
gl_gamma "0.6"
r_tracker_flags "1"
r_tracker_frags "2"
r_tracker_time "6"
scr_autoid "2"
scr_menualpha "0"
scr_teaminfo_frame_color "0 0 0 40"
scr_teaminfo_loc_width "7"
scr_teaminfo_low_health "25"
scr_teaminfo_order "%p%n %l‘ %a/%h %w"
scr_teaminfo_weapon_style "1"
show_fps "1"
//Screen & Powerup Blends
cl_bonusflash "0"
cl_demoplay_flash "1"
v_contentblend "0"
v_damagecshift "0"
v_pentcshift "0.1"
v_quadcshift "0.5"
v_ringcshift "0.15"
v_suitcshift "0.2"
//View Settings
default_fov "108"
fov "108"
v_kickpitch "0"
v_kickroll "0"
v_kicktime "0"
v_viewheight "-6"
//Match Tools
match_auto_logconsole "2"
match_auto_minlength "90"
match_auto_record "2"
match_auto_sshot "1"
match_format_2on2 "2on2/%M/%y-%m-%d_%b_[%M]"
match_format_3on3 "3on3/%y-%m-%d_%b_[%M]"
match_format_4on4 "4on4/%y-%m-%d_%b_[%M]"
match_format_arena "arena/%y-%m-%d_%p(%C)_[%M]"
match_format_coop "solo/%y-%m-%d_%k"
match_format_duel "1on1/%M/%y-%m-%d_%p_vs_%e_[%M]"
match_format_ffa "ffa/%M/%y-%m-%d_%p(%C)_[%M]"
match_format_race "race/%y-%m-%d_%p(%C)_[%M]"
match_format_solo "solo/%y-%m-%d_%p"
match_format_tdm "tdm/%y-%m-%d_(%a)_%b_[%M]"
match_format_tf_clanwar "tf_clanwar/%y-%m-%d_(%a)_%b_[%M]"
match_format_tf_duel "tf_duel/%y-%m-%d_%t_vs_%e_[%M]"
match_name_on "off"
//Demo Handling
demo_capture_dir "qw/capture"
demo_dir "qw/matchinfo/demos"
demo_format "qwd"
qizmo_dir "qw/qizmo"
qwdtools_dir "qw/qwdtools"
//Screenshot Settings
image_png_compression_level "6"
scr_allowsnap "0"
sshot_dir "qw/matchinfo/screenshots"
//Item Names
tp_name_rockets "rox"
tp_name_quad "{quad}"
tp_name_pent "{pent}"
tp_name_ring "{ring}"
tp_name_weapon "rl"
tp_name_flag "{flag}"
tp_name_sentry "sentry"
tp_name_enemy "{enemy}"
tp_name_eyes "{eyes}"
tp_name_quaded "{quaded}"
tp_name_pented "{pented}"
tp_name_rune4 "regeneration rune"
tp_name_rune3 "haste rune"
tp_name_rune2 "strength rune"
tp_name_rune1 "resistance rune"
tp_name_at " $d "
//Item Need Amounts
tp_need_weapon "687"
tp_need_ya "70"
tp_need_ra "70"
tp_need_shells "0"
tp_need_nails "0"
tp_need_cells "0"
tp_need_health "60"
//Server Settings
sv_timeout "20"
//Serverside Physics
pm_ktjump "0.5"
//Serverside Permissions
allow_download_pakmaps "1"
//Unsorted Variables
in_builtinkeymap "1"
ruleset "smackdown"
//User Created Variables
set loc_name_ga "ga"
set loc_name_mh "mega"
set loc_name_ra "ra"
set loc_name_separator "$."
set loc_name_ya "ya"
// T E A M P L A Y C O M M A N D S
tp_pickup powerups weapons armor mh ssg pack rockets
tp_took powerups weapons armor mh ssg pack rockets
tp_point powerups weapons armor players mh ssg pack rockets
filter clear // EDIT: Removed some stuff that doesn't affect "settings", like binds and hud stuff.
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
I don't see any specific problem regarding to demos though, however gl_clear "1" should probably not be there, unless you have set it because of some particular reason.
Also you can try running the QW with default/no config or even someone else's config and see if the problem still persists. (just rename your .cfgs to .cf_ or so)
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
well, thanks for tying to help. however i can only repeat that this is not config related as this occurs in multiple quake installs with very different configs including the *default* config from the fresh nquake install that i just posted.
edit: to further illustrate that this is not related to any settings in my config: this problem goes all the way back to fuhquake (tested with fuhquake 0.31 for mac).
Member
1 post
Registered:
May 2009
I have the same since I started playing QW, which is for about half a year I guess. It's very noticeable in game. I tried changing some settings and even whole configs but it happens on every one I've tried (including the default one). I'm using ezQuake, have 0 packetloss and a steady ping.
Member
115 posts
Registered:
Mar 2006
the jitter comes from an mvdsv bug one of the good guys! so please don't ban - jogi.netdome.biz
Member
252 posts
Registered:
Dec 2006
Have you tested on a server that you know for sure has sv_mintic .012 (77fps) instead of .013 (72fps)? 'on 120 ping i have beaten mortuary dirtbox and reload' (tm) mz adrenalin
'i watched sting once very boring and not good at all' (tm) mz adrenalin
[i]'i shoulda won all
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
thanks Jogi. i'll take it to irc..  Runamok, you mean have i tested it with demos that were recorded on servers with these settings? i'm not sure actually, i've tested it with different demos from different servers. can you even tell for sure what serversettings the demos were recorded with? also why would a difference of 5 fps cause the rocket to stutter like that?
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
Have you tested on a server that you know for sure has sv_mintic .012 (77fps) instead of .013 (72fps)? Such a small change is not enough due to all kinds of inaccuracies. Also 12ms=83,33fps and 13ms=76,92fps but I guess you meant (fpslimit) should be ok within those mintics. So if someone really wants to use lower mintic and still save some CPU time, it should be set to 0.01.
Member
252 posts
Registered:
Dec 2006
Such a small change is not enough due to all kinds of inaccuracies If the smoothness of projectiles is a good measure it is better than .013. What kinds of inaccuracies are those? Also 12ms=83,33fps and 13ms=76,92fps but I guess you meant (fpslimit) should be ok within those mintics. I realise the inaccuracy, in my limited understanding I presumed sv_mintic ~.01298 would be the appropriate value. But indeed what I'm saying is: if smoothness of projectiles is a good benchmark those mintics favour those fps So if someone really wants to use lower mintic and still save some CPU time, it should be set to 0.01 I've tested various sv_mintics (mvdsv, loopback, win xp) on map speed.bsp, by accelerating to 1000 ups and maintaining that speed while firing nails and observing their flight. sv_mintic .013 gives a constant jagged projectile. .01 and .012 give very smooth projectiles with no perceptible difference in smoothness, but infrequently they will stutter once then resume smoothness (.0129 gives smooth projectiles punctuated with frequent jagged spots). Is it a fair assumption that these prediction errors will also indicate prediction errors of player models for example? 'on 120 ping i have beaten mortuary dirtbox and reload' (tm) mz adrenalin
'i watched sting once very boring and not good at all' (tm) mz adrenalin
[i]'i shoulda won all
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
Try dm2 floater/gl. Also get more people to the server, don't be there just alone. Also mintic does not affect player models or your own movement, only the world platforms/lifts and projectiles.
EDIT: loopback, you mean localhost? That's not good unless you reroute from outside. Rather be on a public server with ping times ~10ms or more. Well, not necessarily ~10ms but more than few milliseconds at least.
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
reported this at the mvdsv homepage http://qw-dev.net/issues/274 as this seems to be mvdsv related. hopefully a fix can be found even though i don't have much hope that the affected demos can be 'saved'. it's a shame, slow-motion rocket shots are hot :/
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
I'll reply here instead of the MVDSV tracker.
During normal gameplay, rocket warping/jittering can be caused by few things:
1) Unstable ping when close to frametime. Can be fixed only by adding artificial delay to your connection, the best way of doing this is cl_delaypacket. Or rerouting if it gives you better ping. There's absolutely no other way.
2) "Bad" sv_mintic. Value of 0.013 is not enough to give the smoothest possible experience for each frame on moving world objects, like rockets, grenades, nails and lifts/floaters. You can finetune the sv_mintic serverside, and this is one of the issues that will be resolved in the future MVDSV and/or server package release. Our "testing" is still ongoing but the results are rather ok.
3) cl_physfps not multiplied by integer in order to get cl_maxfps (ie physfps 77 maxfps 500). There's no other way of getting it smooth than using maxfps being a multiple of physfps. Or you could use cl_earlypackets 1 with new enough ezQuake that supports it.
4) Packet loss. Fix your connection, it's 2009 already.
Ok, now to the hard part. You can get smooth rockets/grenades/lifts by tweaking your client and/or server. You can also use cl_newlerp 0.1 to smooth this one out, but it won't affect demos (I might have stated otherwise earlier in this thread, but I was mistaken). Also even if you adjust sv_mintic, it doesn't really seem to have desired effect in demos. Also worth mentioning, why would you want to watch demos at 5% of the normal value? Movies? Probably so, but guess if this is a "priority" issue for MVDSV team: only thing that matters is that MVDSV doesn't crash or do anything stupid while people are playing, and the demos it produces work on most of the clients and QTV streaming is ok.
The problem really seems to lie in the lerping code, so perhaps clientside fix is more appropriate than serverside fix.
Administrator
1864 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
ie physfps 77 maxfps 500
Is physfps 77 and maxfps 500 a bad combo or what?
Member
793 posts
Registered:
Feb 2006
so is there any way to make the jitter less noticeable in a demo using config settings? because all settings i tried so far had no effect at all. yea, i need it for a movie, like i said. also there seem to be 2 people in this thread that noticed the problem in quakeworld gameplay, so i wouldn't say that it applies only to demos. (... but I was mistaken) now that would *have* to be a first, right?  anyway, thanks for the answer.
Administrator
1025 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
During normal gameplay, rocket warping/jittering can be caused by few things:
3)cl_physfps not multiplied by integer in order to get cl_maxfps Is physfps 77 and maxfps 500 a bad combo or what? 500/77 != integer, in other words bad if u have physfps 77. If you use physfps 75 (75hz tft or whatever) maxfps 300 gives smooth experience and no "dev-lag".
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
so is there any way to make the jitter less noticeable in a demo using config settings? No, at least not that I know of a way. I tried changing some lerping stuff but fail. also there seem to be 2 people in this thread that noticed the problem in quakeworld gameplay, so i wouldn't say that it applies only to demos. The jittering that happens in demos is not the same thing that happens on server. The latter can be fixed by existing methods while the first one requires effort and new code. Do not make them the same problem, they aren't. now that would *have* to be a first, right? Hell no, when it comes to our projects I might remember stuff incorrectly. So sometimes I have to doublecheck some things.
Moderator
1329 posts
Registered:
Apr 2006
ie physfps 77 maxfps 500
Is physfps 77 and maxfps 500 a bad combo or what? Uh? cl_physfps not multiplied by integer in order to get cl_maxfps (ie physfps 77 maxfps 500) Is not something, in example x y.
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