so, the chances are higher for people putting significant time in for the league they're playing in, than for them to vote?

also, theres another minority who are trying to decide the mappool, and thats div1 themselves

Why wouldn't div1 get to play what they want to play? :S Voting by clan is a bit difficult because not everyone agree inside a clan, so vote per person is better imho.

Dramaqueens. Oh the horror! New maps! oh noes! cry!

I don't have much time to learn the new maps and I probably won't play them that much either. My team isn't likely to pick a kenya map as it's homemap. If the league was just tb3 I would've been fine with it, but now we get to play 2 more maps. Sure fine. Let's do it.
IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD! :/

No it's not the end of the world, but I really don't want to to be forced to play a map which is NOT a good map, and I know that a lot of players agree with me. I'm talking about cmt1b of course.

I dont really understand why people said that cmt1b is a crappy map? Do you played so many games on this map ? I did play several mixes on it, and I really dont understand why people claim that the map sucks. I mean its one thing if you dont like the layout of a map, but its another that this map is not capable of having exciting 4v4 battles on it.
Another thing is: If tb3 with 2 custom maps getting allowed, but div1 players only want to play tb3 then everything is fine. But you are really scared that one team start practicing those two maps and kick your asses where they wont on tb3.
I can understand that feeling of being beaten because I was too lazy to go on with time and learn some new things.

This voting here sux, kenya maps in eql sux. Can u imagine cmt1b as a decider map in the div1 final? gg admins...

Ahhrrr? Whats the problem with that ?

others already answered that question. It seems to me that div1 dont like that map, and ppl dl their games, not div3-2 team demos. Create kenya tourneys, and if they successfull, then add theese kenya maps to eql.

In my opinion cmt1b is not a bad map (much, much better than cmt3). For me the problem is that div1 final decider could be random ffa in an unknown map. I don't care what lower divs play amongst themselves, but in the final stages of div1 you should be able to expect high level of gameplay. And we are not going to get that in cmt3 or cmt1b, that's a fact. I guess div1 could still agree on a gentleman rule to play tb3 if we want to.

in a tb5 final, you could always agree to start with cmt1b and cmt3, If you wanna avoid playing the decider on that map.

Yeah or agree 1-1 wo's in them and then play the real game.

Custom maps in eql, custom maps in nqr, custom map tournaments, CMT1b in division 1 games...bla bla bla, it's all been done before with a horrible outcome.

Only a handful of clans signed up for the custom map tournaments to begin with and out of those clans only one or two at a time were top teams.

Besides the last (and I think, only time?) CMT1b was the deciding map in a game was in NQR4 I think where Disorder lost to Slackers in a groupgame by 50 to 300 on that very same map. I guess the result speaks for itself, only a handful of players and very few teams are willing to actually take the time needed to fully learn and understand newer maps. This game is over 13 years old people, 95% of the scene is over 20 years old by now. The very few people we have left who has been with this game since it's dawn are completely uninterested in adapting to the changes that this game has brought with it during the years.

I can only say that a voting option where each clan or player from each divsion gets to vote for what maps will be available for their specific division is the most fair way to decide this.

That's what EQL and NQR has looked like for the past few years, division 1 seems perfectly fine with tb3 only as it makes for the most thrilling games.

IMO.

Well, it's not tb3 only because that is what people have decided.

Learn the maps so you can actually compete on them in EQL and maybe you might even (dare I say it?) enjoy them if you forget, for twenty minutes, that you're supposed to whine and hate them on principle. It's a new way to enjoy your favourite game! Don't be so intent on limiting yourselves and have fun!

nobody is forcing anyone to play cmt maps. if you don't want to play them it's fine and if two clans agree to play tb3 they can so what is the problem here?

however if a clan wants to play cmt maps in div 1 it looks like it's going to be allowed in this eql.
by your logic it's not going to happen anyway so why the whine now?

Why do people in the lower divs think they should decide what is played in div1? Why do you even care if you get to play what you want anyway? Let's have a vote per div and see what happens. If majority of div1 wants to play customs then fine, but I guess many find that hard to believe right now.

Please, move my team (USSR) to a div where will be allowed any two of these maps: e2m2, cmt1b, cmt3.
In addition to tb3 of course.

It is such an easy problem to solve: allow different map pools for different clans. Some ppl say this system is broken but i dont see how since it allows for every clan to play the maps they like without forcing extra maps on clans that clearly doesnt want to play them. This is mostly a veteran vs rookie/semi-rookie issue so allowing everyone to play the game the way they want to (except in some games vs tb3 clans) isnt really that difficult to arrange. You might call this unfair since the tb3 clans dont have to adjust but seriously: more maps in the pool WILL NOT make ppl start with quakeworld it will only make veterans stop playing

Well said!

Btw, there is always a choice to give up a map which you don't wanna play -> cmt1b...

Don't break a league by adding unknown maps. I bet that half of the people who was voting for it don't participate EQL10.

cmt1b? already love that map
too sad that history tells that new maps tends to fuck up tourneys...
what about putting up only one new map? so a clan can drop it for deciders...

The boredom of the same maps is also making veterans stop playing - I personally would rather just play tb3 for two reasons - I don't like learning new maps and It's hard enough getting the teamplay running on just tb3. But seeing as last season was TB3 only, I guess it's only fair to try something new.


I bet that joining the discussion when it was still open, would have made your point more valid.

Hopefully we will all be more experienced after EQL10, so we can do it even better for EQL11.

i liked the idea of taking out e1m2 and putting in cmt1b or cmt4 very much, but it's never really had the chance of being discussed since the 2 arguments were kenya sucks vs kenya rulez~

Wouldn't it be better to actually turn on the map, study it a bit, use the brain and think about situations that can happen and then join your clan's channel and discuss what tactics you are going to use to super-trick your opponent... isn't that better and more joyful investment of your time than constantly whining on forums about how you don't have time nor will to learn anything new and that the map sucks even if you haven't played it yet and blah blah what not. I mean really, is it such a frustrating process to you tb3 lovers?

The final matches - yeah, of course the quality of the teamplay on those two maps will be far behind tb3, but how is that a problem? As long as it's entertaining and challenging for the players and fun to watch for spectators, it's ok. Of course, go on with the ultimate whine and maybe admins will once again chicken out for next season (making it tb3), so noone will play those maps of course and you will be able to say again "noone plays those maps" and "teamplay quality is poor on those maps" etc. Endless cycle.

johnny shut your face, dm3 mix is far more important.

Admins always chicken out

like we could ever take away e1m2... dont be silly please

Yeah it is. There is nothing joyful or entertaining about it. Doing it I have the same feeling I have when dragging myself to work on a monday morning in the rain. The only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that afterwards there will be some dm3! Besides, I used to think that's how you learn a map, you know, when I was a kid and the year was '97. Now I know that the only way to get good is to play for thousands and thousands of rounds. And that only helps if you have the talent to start with.


That is a problem because it is not entertaining nor challenging. Winning a map in QNC final when you don't know how to get from a to b feels just stupid. It's a disgrace. It is an endless cycle as you say. The problem is that many of us just dont see the point in doing all the work to learn a new map. I mean what is the ultimate price. You play for 10 years and woohoo then you know a new map. Great. What was achieved? You have 4 maps instead of 3. Did anything really change, for all that work?

Just for the hell of it I'll make sure there is a kenya TDM tournament running along side EQL next season so no matter what happens we can once and for all know, does people like to play kenya maps?

Listening to you talk, it doesn't sound like you enjoyed playing qw at all for the first 10 years. I'm pretty sure the rest of us did.

People enjoy serious competition (in fact, qw is driven by it, as you can see by looking at the gigantic activity spikes every time a league starts), and EQL is the only serious competition left, regardless of the map pool.

People won't care about some upstart side project nearly as much, no matter what the map pool is.

Things change. I'm sure there was a time I enjoyed playing in the sandbox too. Today qw is more enjoyable than ever before though. Back then it was constant fighting with shitty connections and all kinds of problems.