Witka

I checked your demos and even if those are mvds (they run at 20fps and interpolate the frames between to make it look more smooth) and actually I don't think Ilf has an aimbot there. He just uses his LG so conveniently that he manages to get pretty normal score. He also makes mistakes when correcting aim (these mistakes will get rounded away with mvds, but you can STILL see them on those mvds so it would appear that he is really aiming for himself).


As for the LGC demo

1) it's qwd so every move is there as it was really done (every frame is visible, no interpolation here except probably for the player moves/client stuff)

2) You'll notice how Ilf's aim jitter. If he has low sensitivity, that is impossible since you'd have to be really fast with your hand. Compare that jitter to frogbots aim (add 2 bots and spec them): anything similar?

3) There are at least 2 times in the demo when the aim just correct itself immediately from distance. Again if you have low sens you can't do it like that.

4) Also, how come he doesn't hit the bot from really easy spots and then magically his aim improves 400% and he'll hit the bot for 60%

5) Like frogbots, "Ilf" is aiming for the center of the player -> he also makes no correction mistakes which everyone else does, even those top3 guys (zip, react, mur). (Again, compare this to those mvds that make most of the aiming mistakes disappear due to its fps)


You can even use demo_setspeed 50 to watch the demos in slow motion which makes it even more clear that it's not really a human aim. Actually comparing "Ilf's" performance to the frogbot should be enough, no normal player has that kind of jitter in their aim. Like Empezar said, it's really scary when you don't want to see the obvious...

it is very strrange that a 35 years old man is cheating, isn't it?

there just is no way humanly possible to get 55% shaft with ilf's airshafting skills

is to easy to cheat in this tourney... :\

make more 1on1 turneys...eheheheh

frogbots is just for fun offline...

i want summer duelmania...

Those guys saying that he is not cheating must be retards, excuse the language.
I don't think you watched any of his demos / avis out there..

How can possibly a man be shafting like that, know exactly what movement you do
and always the crosshair in the middle of you, not going anywhere.
How can he possibly know exactly how you are moving, exactly in the mm have the
shaft in your chest.

'ye, he isn't cheating, he is 35'

Don't see it in any rules that guys that are 35+ is not cheating.

lol..def just sended a hacked qwd with 176 frags and 70.1 lg..if u watch the demo u'll notice the frags are 156 by pressing tab, and the lg im sure is not above 52%
[]'s

Just proving my point that this competition is useless without a secure server and client. The weapon stats on screen was a nice touch, wasn't it? All you need is notepad and find & replace to do what I did. I mass replaced everything 49-58 to 69-78 to get the end result. It's the same identical demo from my previous record, so the lg is infact 50.1% not 70.1%. I left the 156 to 176 trace in there for you to spot, so congrats on being the first one. Read One Shot Flinch's post for some ideas on how to make this competition legitimate -> http://www.challenge-tv.com/index.php?mode=demodetail&demo=31249

Infact it's extremely easy to edit anything in demo with just a plain notepad, you can change the server info, user info, names, strings, stats, just about anything. Besides that you can't really trust any of these numbers people are putting up. Sure they might not be aimbotting, but they could be using custom clients that make it easier to achieve higher than normal lg %.

For example a custom ezquake client that removes the blood being rendered in your face from being hit, or the lg bolt model being rendered from your enemy, or replaced player models with a simple boundary hitbox, or replaced lg model with a thin straight shaft, and transparent walls that allow you to see where bot spawns at all times. None of these things can be detected by the demo alone, making any and all results negligable.

yeah..i thought of something like that when i saw it, indeed this competition is useless..thats why i gived up on getting more, waiting for a " secure " one to come out ( altough i think this is quite impossible to achieve.. )
[]'s

a 'secure' euro one can be held at next qhlan :-)

I for one have not cheated and i think most others did not either.

while i have faith in the majority of the qw community being mature enough not to cheat in something like this, i know there will always be someone with a small e-penis that will want to cheat.

the next release of lgc will address some of these problems, but not all. of course if any coders wish to assist me in this they are more than welcome, but please do the assisting with code, not with words.

i have limited time that i can allocate to this competition, so while i will be able to combat most of these cheats, i will not be able to combat them all.

even at the next qhlan, oldman, it is possible someone will bring a client that will on the fly change the output of +wp_stats and everything else :p

I read on some gaming community site yesterday night that on a norwegian counter-strike lan with over 3500 euros for the winning team, a team cheated ON THE LAN!
they used sophisticated wallhack/aimbots.
The wallhack wasent showing the wallhack but the aimbot was on when ever he wanted it to be on with some scripts, they did not find any prove on the pc he was using nor with any cheat scans but when looking at his demos with wallhack you can clearly see that he was cheating big time!
You can download the movie clip from http://www.evo-lan.com/aaseng.paa.lan.rar , its around 130 mb and 8 min long but worth a watch.
CS that got plenty of anticheat scans etc cant detect a cheat on lan?

Its great that you cant shoot through walls in QW \o/

CS has loads of anti-cheat mechanisms but when I was playing it the cheaters were always one step ahead of those trying to stop them. It doesn't surprise me that an entire clan tried to get away with something like that.

I remember at qhlan 5 (?) there were 4 cs palyers there and I asked them if they wanted to play against me 1-4 because Im the QW godhest I could own them all in cs aswell.
When we played I put the cheats on and won the game and they wanted to recruite me directly I had about 10 ppl watching me play with cheats and we were just laughing at the cs kidz..

Damn, must have been really really disappointing for them to attend a LAN with only FOUR people playing the game you like.

I will attempt to fix amateurish hex editing of the demo. As many have pointed out here, though, human intervention is required to capture all hackers.

Eventually, if you think about it, human LG skill may almost be indistinguishable from bots. But at the present time i think QW veterans with a firm grasp on the mechanics of LG, are able to elucidate which player is cheating and which is not. (Hopefully this will be even easier once I release the new LGC with qw LG physics)

So here is my tentatively proposed solution: Every demo will be able to be voted by all the users. Of course some might abuse this. But hopefully the majority of votes will be informative and based on those votes I will be able to DQ cheating demos as they appear. This is nowhere near foolproof of course, but its the best I can do for now.

It's better than nothing. And those voting for an aimbot, please state your arguments for it.

well you could prevent hex editing much more easily

seeing as the QuakeC mod isn't GPL code you can write a close source version of fbcakt which writes that stats to an encrypted/obfuscated binary format that must be uploaded with the demo. Then you use your private algorithm to decrypt the stats and use that to provide the scores

the demo can then be used as evidence to prove someone wasn't being an aimbot

you could probably do other things within the mod to prevent aimbots

I was actually thinkingheavily about this oldman, but I didn't know quakec was powerful enough to write files.

I would really like to hear your ideas oldman, because I know you have proven yourself as a competent quake developer.

Hardly, It's easier to cheat in CS than QW :|.

Last VAC update was ages ago, and you can actually google for hacks that are VAC-proof, thats right, Public hacks that are undetected... gg anticheat.

That's what I said...

well theres been a tuturial for a while on how to add file read/write to quakec at quakesrc but i don't think any current QW engines have yet implemented this (probably to avoid mods being written for only a specific engine) but it could be added for this competition i assume

It's the FRIK_FILE extension, which at least FTE has. Fuhquake also has it, if you wanted to use that for a server, so I'm assuming ZQuake has it as well.

ZQuake doesn't have it and its commented out in EZQuake source (//"FRIK_FILE", //incomplete) so I assume it possible is commented out in Fuhquake as well? Or is it enabled in a released fuhquake binary?

the important one is PF_fputs which doesn't appear to be included

Nope, I was too quick there - indeed commented out in Fuhquake as well.


Well, if it's just that, it shouldn't be hard. But be sure that game mods can't write outside the game directory.

whoa
i play quake 3, and these lg %'s seem crazy

is it very much different to quake 3 lg? cause in q3, i can only get 30%, 35 if playing well (against humans)

:|

I'd imagine it'd be the same though, cause principle is the same. keep aim on enemy. how do you do it? 60%, damn :|

Bad bots are more predictable than smart humans, thus easier to hit. And the lg physics in QW are quite different from Q3 - I always sucked terribly with the lg in Q3, but find it a lot easier to aim in QW. But I suppose that's mainly a question of training. Most players won't get more than 35 % lg during "normal" games (1on1, 2on2, 4on4) though. A select group of l33t0r h4x0rz actually manage to get up to around 45 %, but that's quite uncommon.

ok well good news, i have a working qw packet sniffer coded (took me all of the past 45 mins HEHE), this way i do not rely on the printer numbers in the demo on my statistics. now i just gotta clean it up and slop together a new site (ill use old one as a base i guess, unless someone wants to design something cool -- but not too cool) so hopefully that will be done soon and we will all see how your skills are with QW lg physics

Nice, i can't wait.

People people once you learn howt o make the game quake..... you can do anything to it etc.