The NA community was steaming ahead very well until the recent GND/Rusty fight. For those who don't know GND/Rusty had an agreement to split admin power 50/50 so basically they ended up fighting and disagreeing a lot because 1-1 splits on decisions. The main problem started however when Rusty unilaterally declared himself the only admin. Not sure why he did since it has done irreparable harm (lots of burned bridges!) to the NA QW community and shows a lack of maturity and foresight. In his speech after he mass de-opped everyone but himself and set +m on the channel #na-quakeworld he mentioned something along the lines of "we might lose players" and seemed totally OK with that. In fact I'm sure he'd be quite happy with certain players quitting who disagree with him. Since he had control over the main IRC channel #na-quakeworld and sole access to www.na-quakeworld.com I think he assumed he can do whatever he wants.

A bit afterwards GND started inviting people to #smackdown to continue without Rusty. Quickly another site was put up at www.qwcentral.com . Rusty then moved to stop this and used unauthorized access to GND's Q account on QuakeNet to take over and kick/ban everyone from #smackdown . One funny bit of timing which is very telling is when Rusty banned his "enemies" in #na-quakeworld 5 minutes before using GND's access and name to take over #smackdown . This is clearly a guy who puts himself ahead of community and has shown he should not have a position of responsibility or leadership.

In short the NA QW community is suffering from an abuse of power by a person in a trusted position who is putting his own ego and lust for control over the good of the community. GND/Rusty should both be replaced as admins so the leagues can continue with fresh admin leadership by those the community trusts. Currently many in the community loathe Rusty and do not support him. If we can't quickly move forward from this the current draft league will fail and it seems unlikely another will be a success anytime soon.

*note I purposely left out logs, blah blah, but I feel the above are the most important points.

Fastidious,

There really is no end to your constant whining is there? It's to the point that I am not even going to defend myself or bore the community with "he said she said" bullshit, I will say you have a VERY interesting spin on the facts. The simple 'matter of fact' was, I was doing 95% of the work, 50% admin and getting told by others (such as you, who wasn't even on the voters panel) to "shut up" or "stop" every time I attempted to do something I felt was best for the community. GND chose to ignore our voting panel on league matters, my hands were tied and I was backed into a corner, and so here we find ourselves. Rather than go and run a successful league as you stated you could, you continue to pester me and the community.

Anyone is free to start a league and to manage it as they see fit, I thought that's what you 3 left to do? For a small group of people who are convinced things are being run into the ground in #na-quakeworld, you guys sure do annoy the piss out of all of the players with your constant PM spams to them: "I thought you were my friend, part #na-quakeworld and join <our channel>, the league is dead" or GND messaging everyone "WTF, I thought we were bros, part #na-quakeworld and join me", etc. If I had a dollar for every time a player has messaged me pasting what you've said to them, I could probably pay you all to just go away. Further more, it has become clear that any who do not agree or follow GND/Vegeta/You have been publicly harassed, called "traitors" or "snitches", kicked out of GND's clan, etc, that is sure to win over the masses, fear tactics.

You know what all of these initiatives tell me and others? That you have realized people continue with their interest in the NA-QUAKEWORLD draft and duel league and have no need for what you are doing, IF NA-QUAKEWORLD was terrible and failing, everyone would be messaging YOU looking for greener pastures. As for my "lusting of control", I have no control, NA-QUAKEWORLD has formed a panel of players, the majority with no loyalty to me, ranging from veteran players to newbies, something the league never had before, input on all levels. I am one person among many, oh and as always "I just update the site". You really can't run a league that is "all about growing the community" if your panel is only made up of elitists.

As anyone will see that goes to to www.na-quakeworld.com will see that the league is ALIVE and ACTIVE, both the 4v4 and duel leagues. We have even played a match since the separation and guess what happened? 'QWCentral' decided to steal all the match info and post it up on their site as their initiative (as they did with ALL of the work that I had done setting up na-quakeworld.com). You will see that I am one of the players in the matches copied here: Copied match info . Clear proof of games from the NA-QUAKEWORLD league being included on their site to make their initiative look promising, something that neither team agreed to. The match was played for NA-QUAKEWORLD and na-quakeworld ONLY. I don't believe I had even finished downloading the match from the server and Fastidious had taken it as his own. There are more matches scheduled for NA-QUAKEWORLD 4v4 league on sunday/monday, which I'm sure will ultimately also end up on their site as their own. A quick glance through their site will see they have done a direct copy paste of the majority of screenshots, etc from the NA-QUAKEWORLD site.


Perhaps if you 3 put as much effort into starting and administering a new league as you have done trying to get everyone to hate me, attempting to get them to leave #na-quakeworld, or copying the website www.na-quakeworld.com , you would be up and running by now with your own tournament and be able to show everyone how you can do things SO much better.

Ultimately your group has no campaign or leg to stand on regarding how "your league is better", you simply have started smear campaigns and aggressive pestering in an attempt to gain favor amongst the community. If this thread isn't proof of that, I don't know what is. It seems to me the only ones trying to "KILL" things, is your small bunch, please start a new league, I would love to have multiple leagues going at once as it would ultimately lead to our goal of increasing activity here in North America

Remember folks, the group with nothing to offer will always try to make themselves look better by putting down the competition, rather than priding themselves on their own abilities and offerings.

I won't be responding to any further posts here, if anyone has any comments or suggestions regarding the league, please message me on IRC.



Rusty`

#na-quakeworld
www.na-quakeworld.com

its always shame that national scene problems coulnt be resolved on their own playground ;I, tho i know why you share information guys. Funny is i am almost shure only 5% can say wft is going on but 99% already know 'who have right'.
gl ,have a nice drama and the truth is out there .

It's worth mentioning that using people's passwords off his na-quakeworld website is not only malicious but shows the low levels someone can reach to attack a member in the community. #smackdown was the second time (#sta being the first ) Rusty exhibited IRC warfare tactics simply using download scripts like tribe which anyone can obtain despite false claims its a script he programmed. A lot of players simply decided not to tolerate this kind of behavior and is unfortunately a reason there's been a stall in the regular quakeworld tdm games we had going.

To support hostile hijacks/mass bans and use of information that is expected to be secure on a quakeworld website for malicious ends and attempt to modify ruin someones irc account (gnd's irc in which all his channels were affected) is wrong and should be looked down upon by the community. The only good that came from #smackdown hijack/ban and gnd's account breach/exploit was it casted a very clear picture into the mind of an obsessive compulsive creature who has created more drama and served to poison the very community he proclaims to support. Most people saw the explosive reaction from thump4 on a night in 4on4 and ss's posted from a duel with blaze. What they didn't see was the lead up events which players now have read coming from thump4 (can't ban/muzzle email) which are the same reasons I never participated in the #na-quakeworld draft. The antagonist and self proclaimed admin of a webpage and an irc channel... Rusty.

P.S Nobody was required to get people to dislike you Rusty.. you did that by yourself

To those of you that use KMLeague, your passwords are encrypted Even after seeing this, people (such as shaftadelic) still continue to spread this lie to the community, this should call everyone to question their motives and intent. If they know this and are still pushing it on players in the league what else have they constructed.

Shaftadelic: Consider this your call out for a duel, I hear you continually run your mouth about me, it's time to show everyone "your skills". Message me when you're ready please.

Edit: Better yet, post your response here with detail of when you would like to beat me so there is no mistake of you reply.

Rusty`

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFwznCG3MMI

Seems like both of you are at fault :-) how about you both just grow up and start solving things instead of making them worse?

Rusty: It's not like these IRC-thingys are gonna make anything better, right? All it does is make things worse and now eventually it got worse enough to end up on qw.nu.
GND: It takes two to dance, and trying to get people to dislike Rusty also only makes it worse.

I think we should simply lock Rusty and GND into a silent room with eachother for a week with noone else to talk to and let them work their things out and not have them affect the community more than they already have

Stop being 5 year olds and mature up a bit, both of you. Solve this with eachother and shut the hell up, for all of our sakes =)
It kind of sucks that other people have to act daddies and mommies for you guys.

EDIT: Oh and I agree that admins in tournaments/leagues should not be involved in drama like this. But I guess that effectively means that neither Rusty nor GND are suitable to make any decisions from any administrative position.

Advice: Either you guys get your shit together, have yourselves replaced, or add another admin so that there are no 1-1 splits in decisions, but always 2-1 to either direction and then deal with it if you get downvoted.

Regards,

A website is setup by the administrator and they can govern what kind of encryption if any is implemented. The password used to hijack Gnd's irc ident and modify his account was the same one he used for irc. If you insist on claiming your site passwords are encrypted and you have no access to them so be it. For people who have heard about the incident a friendly and obvious recommendation... don't use the same password for sites that you use for other critical accounts (email/IRC)

In regards to Quakeworld be it Duel/Aim maps/ TDM's, I've owned you time and time again. After your rookie attempt at sending sane a ping.exe virus which I informed Sane about outing you... you became bitter for something you shouldn't have been sending someone. The ping.exe virus failed attempt is yet an earlier exploit attempt you perpetrated against another accomplished player ( can't say the same for you). In regards to your duel challenge or any challenge in Quakeworld you have neither have proven yourself worthy to continue attempting to play me, you have not earned any further right to play me, rather you have burned a lot of bridges with many players who refuse to do anything with you be it participation in a tourney or game. You are a malicious individual who's actions have already revealed your nature. You have neither won tournaments, be it duel TDM nor achieved any recognition aside from the bad drama regarding the script channel hijacks and smear campaign you launched into a public forum along with irc against Thump4, another well respected and accomplished player out of your league.

I have already beat you in duels, retired you from povdmm4/aim-maps when you couldn't handle the mauling, and quite simply put you are a new comer to TDM and usually snuggled up on my team. It's funny the topic of a duel comes up with you when a identical conversation occured under the guise of the new alias dragz who kept on asking questions about our duel history / who's the better player along with topics in the conversation that only you would seem to be aware of and care. Just like an old toy I've already played you out, have become bored of you, and downright have no respect for you based on your actions and having witnessed your behavioral patterns ( which is why I cut you off, ceased talking to you and stopped playing with you in the first place). Playing duel's (which I'm well known for not doing/having experience in my entire Quakeworld history) yet having owned you repeatedly on aerowalk despite this, the only map you were known to play during this time left me no reason to continue playing you. You play better players to get better. The exception is helping players you respect and care to help.

On that note even if you improved during my 2 months off Quakeworld ( something the new alias dragz attempted to point out to me), or became a challenge, I will never honor you with a chance of obtaining some sort of personal redemption from the psychological drama I obviously caused you just playing a game. You are a person who exhibits obsessive compulsive disorder, delusional ideology on the way things in the community are, and stalker traits. I can see no better fitting torment for you than to leave that permanent scar I left shattering your morale in Quakeworld.

On the plus side you learned beat your dad flash..... i guess that counts for something....

...and you Shaftadelic, are a part of the dance since you guys just don't seem to wanna stop :-) So I wonder what you guys are doing on these forums then, since neither of you seems to want to solve anything.

Regards,

The reason I posted my opinions here are as follows:

1) They aren't modified by the individual in question
2) Opinions or debate aren't 1 sided, people on both side's of the issue get to speak freely

My intention isn't to continue any of this drama that was started up on irc, but with the numerous events that occured, and the hijacking of channels on IRC where these discussions/debate were and should be taking place I felt I should share my opinion in support of what numerous players such as this threads creator Fastidious brought up as many of these opinions are in line with my own experience. In regards to resolving this "Drama" we simply adopted a new channel and issued a warning for people to be more careful with potentially personal information / access codes being used on websites.

On that note this will be my last post regarding this issue and apologizes to the good administrator of quakeworld.nu as It's not the intention of fastidious nor myself to bring up a soap opera on the forum. Just wanted to clear the air and get some facts out for a lot of players that weren't aware of what was going on regarding the incidents regarding the league and IRC issues. There is nothing to resolve as players are informed and will govern themselves in the way they best see fit.

Ok, retards, i set up: #silent-room @ qnet
Just connect there and get over with this drama!

Rusty says he is for community and getting QW played yet when Vegeta Hoes (a NA QW draft team) scheduled our team vs his with his captain (captains are in charge of scheduling in the draft league, not admins) he told us our team had quit the league and therefore could not play his team. Clearly a team scheduling matches has quit, right? The simple truth is Rusty regardless of if he is right or wrong is too involved in personal drama to be an effective admin and needs to step down to put the community first like he says.

i am surprised about yours faith about makeing someone to step down will resolve any problems . Any decisons and agreements may be worth nothing when successor decides finally to quit or get manipulated. You have all - structure (site,control,ppl) or have nothing. another story are undisputed authorities with low level of hypocrisy but hey - do you know any ? ;P

lol. This is so 1998.

Get an NA admin that will allow high-ping non-na players in tournies.

All these accomplishments and yet Shaftadelic will not publicly own me, surprise surprise.

Wow, watch words u use 2 insult peeple Vizaari. They relly culd hurt some1. Think b4 u speak.

i also noticed he reacted improperly but i know person who call every one he like DONKEYS even these who dont know his 'fancy' dictionary. gg there

I agree with the original post... although I won't say that I loathe anyone, or that any of this should ever become personal, even though it has between some people. Its a video game for (serious) fun, after all...

I discussed this in private with both parties and others involved, and one thing is clear, neither rusty nor gnd are any longer capable of communicating with each other. Even just talking to them one on one, I had to sometimes ignore flame baits, and continuously steer the convo in the right direction. Furthermore, as I understand it: the major source of friction was how league issues would be decided upon - a panel of team captains - and this panel's dysfunction (perhaps through no fault of its own, but as a byproduct of its design) caused the disagreements.

On the one hand, I want to side with gnd, because rusty was the one who took it one step above discussion and into drastic action (you could say he went from diplomacy to war) but on the other hand, I want to side with rusty, because after cross examination it seems like gnd broke the rules of how league administration would be conducted (by a panel)

But, in the end, all I want to see is an active community playing 4on4 pickups, duels, clan arena, etc. We were having that in spades with gnd and rusty and friends at the helm. But now, a lot of people are dejected because of the drama, don't have that fun playing spirit anymore, and are just at the whole thing. It is unfortunate that rusty and gnd couldn't work out their differences professionally. Both of these guys (and all the other people who help) are capable of putting in a lot of great work. League administration can definitely be handled by a panel, but disagreement about the panel should not lead to the panel splitting up, one admin kickbanning the other and taking full ownership, the other admin cloning and sabotaging the league, not to mention password hacks deleting websites and in simple words: depressing the entire community.

To quote star wars, I move for a vote of no confidence in chancellors' gnd and rusty leadership, and to elect a new, powerful, and benevolent leader: B1aze

Also, I want to say something about running a league in general. It is an art. You can do a mountain of grunt work, but this does not give you the right to become judge jury and executioner. I want to single out VVD for a moment, who has been the driving force behind thunderdome, for example. Now, thunderdome might close tomorrow and become a complete failure, and VVD would still be a Good Guy in my eyes. Not only because he is doing the grunt work - tracking down players, scheduling games, writing scripts for the website, etc. Holy shit, this guy has actually been coding quake code ever since it got released into public domain by John Carmack himself.

No, VVD is a Good Guy because he never makes the mistake of thinking too much of himself. He never takes himself so serious that suddenly he has to be glorified. Some of you might not even know who he is (and he's ok with that.) VVD doesn't have to be thanked by anybody (and everybody right now has to go and thank him for everything he has done) because he knows that its a game, and we're all friends playing it, and if we can't have friendship then we might as well not play the game.

Second what phil said in his last post. I have this theory that quake tournament admins are in general idiots looking for an ego high. For the most part the theory has held up to real observations.

What people dont seem to realize is that in a good, well run tournament, the admins role is just to make things go smoothly and do the grunt work. Admins should never be called upon to make any major mid tournament decisions because that in essence only happens because u set the tournament up wrong in the first place. Take #sta. Why, after what we saw in the first season, was a team redistributed in the second season? Makes absolutely zero sense to me. If, as a captain, u don't bother to look into the activity level or schedule issues of players you are picking, then your team deserves to sit out the season when they can't figure out how to get enough active players. The solution is to fix this in between seasons, and make sure there is some mechanism through which u can pick teams in a way that allows u to have 4 active players on to play games.

The other thing interesting from this whole drama is that the key players continue to act retarded. Rusty acts as if he's on some moral high ground and ignores most of the reality of the situation. Gnd and party continue to act all wounded when people don't want to join their channels or refuse to part #na-quakeworld and continue with the whole omg he hacked our password and irreparably damaged our irc channel. BIG FUCKING DEAL. If you're serious about building a new league, do it. Stop acting like trying to shit talk Rusty matters. The community for the most part doesn't care.

Hopefully someone new is allowed to take the league over. Otherwise I see all this just dying, which would be a pity because I think the league was pulling in some new players (such as myself) and bringing some old players back.

Popcorn, omnom

If you go here - http://www.na-quakeworld.com/index.php?l=1&s=4&mod=content&view=draft you'll see that Vegeta Hoes Again! and Sweep The Leg are now gone from the league website Rusty controls. Those teams were captained by Vegeta and GND who oppose Rusty. This shows Rusty is not about getting QW played but playing immature games as admin by disbanding teams against the wishes of their players and captains. Our team, Hoes, has not quit despite him PMing lies to our players to tell them we have. The correct team info can still be seen here - http://www.qwcentral.com/index.php?l=1&s=4&mod=team&view=details&no=14&act=players and http://www.qwcentral.com/index.php?l=1&s=4&mod=team&view=details&no=17&act=players . Again I'm not sure what he's doing here and the new team would likely have no chance at all with their current lineup which lacks any captains or first round draft picks.


That's a bit sad point of view. I've known and worked with many good admins. I myself used to admin but it's a thankless job and everyone bitches and shits on you in NA so I never will do it again. I'll still be involved in discussions and such however like this because sometimes you need to talk to move things forward.


Agreed.


There are various reasons why it was done, the simple one was teams were 6 players only per team so if they dropped down to 4-5 players it quickly became very hard for them to be active usually compared to other teams with 6 players. For example the average team size in EQL this season is 7.625 so even on clans you need a buffer of extra players. There was no real reserve list of people to replace anyone with so when there were problem teams each season it made the most sense to do the best the league could to place the players from the "dead" team onto other teams. Why do this? Because it allows those players to play from the "dead" team and helps league activity a lot. This is a league about playing just as much as it is about competition. I agree more could have been done to fix this inbetween seasons but that also goes back to the original GND/Rusty problem. It is hard for them to agree on anything so problems are not easily fixed and become huge drama flame wars. This season the captains agreed by majority vote to redistribute players so if you want to blame someone this season blame them.

<snip, cut out the trolling part> :-)


Agree again. There are some neutral people who could step up that would get community support.

Fastidious:

This part is SOLELY for you to answer: I have but one question, you say your team is still participating in the NA-QUAKEWORLD 4v4 league (even though I've received other messages and information, but we'll ignore that for the time being), if this is true then why have do you still continue to update QWcentral, set your own "league end dates" and attempt to manage what appears to be a shadow league? If everyone is taking part in the NA-QUAKEWORLD league, why have you put up your own website mimicking our games? I wasn't born yesterday and neither was anyone else here.

Further, Vegeta has indicated to someone that he would like to speak with me regarding resolving this somehow, I've messaged last night Vegeta telling him I would like to speak with him as well; I've yet to receive a reply from him.

Your continuing posts, constant conspiring, and persistent shadow league only shows your inability to stop 'with the drama', drama that you say I am the one bringing to the community. I didn't realize I started this thread... Furthermore, you were not an admin or on the "voting panel" of the original league, but yet you are somehow the one to continue with all of these drama prolonging posts while others are trying to work things out?

Phil: I don't believe I've ever expected PRAISE for anything I've done for the NA community over the past little while, in fact I've stated quite the opposite on numerous occasions. What I do expect is that people move in a positive direction. Many individuals will be the first to bitch and the last to make any recommendations. I will talk with ANYONE who has ANY ideas or suggestions on how to make things better for all of us, even if they don't fall in line with my train of thought. I believe that I'm always asking opinions on things in #na-quakeworld and most of my news posts on tournament things (such as map selection procedures) always end in "If anyone has any ideas or input on what they would like to see, or a way to do this better, please message me". Many people along the line seem to have forgotten that BITCHING is not the same as suggesting ideas or providing solutions.

Wonko: I am 100% with you regarding the continuing problems we have with teams each season, it should be no surprise we have a team disbanded and other teams missing players at the start of the season given whom we allowed to be draft, remember when I was the devil for telling players they wouldn't be on the draft list if they weren't actually playing quake? Welcome to Season 2, not done as I suggested (or put to the official panel). It is funny that Fastidious somehow ties this to ME/GND, the problem was our PANEL was never followed nor adhered to by GND, partly because of the support he received from non-admin, non-panel individuals such as Fastidious.

Fastidious, it's funny because as much as you seem to keep repeating to everyone, "Rusty needs to leave, we need a panel!"; I didn't see you telling GND, "well you need to consult your panel" when things were going as you wanted just before the split and GND was not following the voting panel. Instead at that time you chose the route of "Rusty is just causing trouble and disagreeing with US", well who exactly was US? Was it the panel agreed upon by me and GND? The answer is NO. You now call my a tyrant, however it's clear to me democracy only works then it is in your favor otherwise you are fine foregoing the agreed upon organized streams as long as it sees your means to an end.

Rusty`

Rusty, man up then, step down as an admin and let some neutral parties take over duties of running the league. That doesn't mean a panel of people you hand selected which include your own father on it. LOL! But oh wait, you'd rather destroy the community and disband teams than give up power. Gotcha. If you didn't notice both Phil and Wonko suggested new leadership but I'm sure you'll ignore that.

Have you noticed a trend since you declared yourself sole admin and started this bullshit ego campaign? Yeah, QW TDM has dropped from being played sometimes two 4v4s at once to barely at all as people are sick of this. You know how to fix it? Be a mature person and put trust in another individual who has respect of the community to run things. Yet instead you continually lie and put words into my mouth and GND/Vegeta when talking in this very thread and when you are PMing people to continue your ego battle.

Against, you failed to answer my question.

Rusty`

Well. I do agree this has gotten a little out of hand. But here is my point of view.

I started this league up from nothing. I had to beg people to play in the first season. It ended up being a very big success. With the help of shaftadelic we had a smooth season 1, and were looking forward to season 2. Shaftadelic went AFK because of Real life issues, and we had no good website so rusty volunteered his services. I was cool with it because rusty seemed like a good guy. Now season 2 has been going on, and everything is ok. We are bickering about stupid things like rusty wanting to ban sane from #na-quakeworld and kick thump4 out of the tournament for talking back (yes thats right euros, how many of you would be banned for "talking back". He obviously started becoming very power hungry and started making selfish stupid decisions for the league and community, so i called him out on it. I think told him we can never decide on anything and we need a panel of admins like EQL (which i have logs to prove all of this which everyone has seen). Well i leave the fighting on friday for the weekend, and come back sunday evening to see that EVERYONE was removed off of Q and rusty had taken over the channel. Yes he took over the channel removed everyone off of Q and kick banned myself and vegeta. Talk about pulling a fast one right? LOL. Anyways, for all of you paying attention someone I originally asked for help with the website tookover the channel. And by the way, the website was also on lock down. This guy is a nazi. Seriously. He would let NO ONE else access the site with admin panels or nothing. Only he uploaded stuff to the site. Only he had access PERIOD. Well anyways, me vegeta fastidious and a few others decided to say cool, keep your channel and your site, we have the people behind us (which we did). We moved to a new channel and his channel was dwindling very quickly, from 60 to 28 in 2 days, and mine had 58 the last day we had it. Heres the great part, after moving channels and moving websites, YES WE MOVED WEBSITES and REPLACED THE NAZI in 36 hours, he went into his database on www.na-quakeworld.com and took my password and used my auth and gained access to our channel, which he then TOOK OVER AGAIN. LOL. Heres the CREEPY PART FOLKS. He has everyones PW on na-quakeworld.com and i am SO LUCKY i dont use that password on gmail.com or facebook or ANYTHING ELSE except quakeworld. This guy is so looney tunes he would probably try to mess up some real life stuff of mine. Which is where i draw the line. He has done this to someone i will not name already. Talk about a guy with no life right? Yeah i know. Anyways, that is the real story. Most of the people in the community know who i am, and know that all i have done is help. And build things up. Just ask squeeze for the real story, or anyone with any respect in the NA community. This rusty guy (yeah most of you dont know who he is because hes terrible at quakeworld) will probably even try to tell you SQUEEZE isnt a reliable source to ask. This guy is really crazy. Anyways, we will continue the league as soon as the captains can agree on something, without myself or rusty involved. I am willing to remove myself from the equation if people think i have an "ego" and continue my efforts at building the scene, but i will not participate in any type of event that involves someone that is low life as that.

*!boom!*

you guys seem to spend alot of time producing massive amounts of text.. thats your main problem : ]

shut up and play the game